NEW MKULTRA DISCOVERY: Terence McKenna admited that he was a “deep background” and “PR” agent (CIA or FBI).

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This explosive audio clip that was just brought to my attention today by “Scott” reveals, in Terence McKenna’s own words, that he was in fact an agent.

The audio clip comes from Dec. 1994 from his lecture at the Esalen Institute, which may be found below in full.

As I wrote on August 28, 2012, in my article: How Darwin, Huxley, and the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions – and began one of the largest mind control operations in history. Some brief notes. (Here I’ve added most of the pertinent quotes from Mckenna’s True Hallucinations):

“…here is an interesting episode regarding McKenna being chased by Interpol and the FBI – from which no conclusion is ever mentioned. As Henk from Europe emailed me after this original article was published:

[Henk] In 1969, McKenna traveled to Nepal led by his “interest in Tibetan painting and hallucinogenic shamanism.”[6] During his time there, he studied the Tibetan language and worked as a hashish smuggler, until “one of his Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U. S. Customs.”

True Hallucinations, p. 22ff:

Late in August of 1969 fate turned me from hash smuggler to fugitive when one of my Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U.S. Customs. I went underground and wandered throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, viewing ruins in the former and collecting butterflies in the later. Then came my time in Japan. Whether this gave me an edge on the others in experience seemed unlikely.

True Hallucinations page 166:

This decision to depart California (Henk:and return to the Amazon) was hailed by my circle in Berkeley. Concern for my mental state was rife among my friends, and rumor had reached us that the FBI was aware that I was somewhere back inside the country and had begun looking for me. The Bombay-to-Aspen hashish blues were catching up with me. It was, as they say, time to make a move.

True Hallucinations pg. 179

In February of 1970, a year before I arrived at La Chorrera, my fugitive wanderings had taken me to the island of Timor in Eastern Indonesia. Under indictment in the States for the heinous crime of importing hashish, I traveled and lived under the dramatic assumption that international police agencies were combing the globe looking for me. My cover, that of a graduate student in entomology doing field work for a degree—a butterfly collector—had worked well over the previous six months

True Hallucinations pg. 186

I swallowed hard. He didn’t look like the sort of person who would appreciate my stories of fighting the police at the Berkeley barricades shoulder-to-shoulder with affinity groups like the Persian Fuckers and the Acid Anarchists. Nor did my participation in the Human Be-In or the rolling orgies of the Summer of Love in the Haight-Ashbury seem appropriate to mention. And my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.
I decided to go with the usual half-truth reserved for straight people. “I am an art historian turned biologist. I went to Nepal to study Tibetan but found that I am no linguist when it comes to Asian languages. I have returned to biology, my first love. Specifically, I am an entomologist.
I am collecting butterflies here in Indonesia retracing the route of Alfred Russell Wallace. Wallace was the real discoverer of the theory of natural selection, but Darwin got all the credit. I identify with his underdog status. Wallace was shafted by Victorian science because he was of the wrong class and didn’t know how to play politics the way Darwin did. Wallace explored the Amazon Basin as well and if all goes well, I hope to travel and collect there too. Eventually I will write a monograph on speciation among the butterflies of Amazonas and Eastern Indonesia, which will get me a degree. Then, who knows. Teaching perhaps. Hard to say.

[Henk] He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol. He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]

Note he fled to avoid capture by Interpol but then after a time he casually returns to Berkeley?

First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think.

Attempts to get an answer from Terence’s brother, Dennis, regarding the above episode have failed. It seems they want us to believe that Terence just went from being wanted by Interpol and the FBI to just casually lecturing about psychedelics. What happened in the interim? Someone must know the answer.”

We finally have the conclusion to what happened to Terence after the FBI had caught him:

Questioner: I’m real curious about one thing. Why is it important for you to do this?

Terence McKenna: I wonder myself. You mean am I the alien ambassador whether I like it or not? [laughs]. Well, often when asked this question, I’ve said it beats honest work. I mean, my brother is a PhD in three subjects and works in hard science and yet I don’t think it’s brought him immense happiness. Not that he’s despondent. But I was always kind of a slider. You know?

And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then they recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization”. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

I think ideas get me high. And I like the feeling of understanding and I love diversity to the point of weirdness.

Questioner: It seems that there’s more to it than that for you. Because, you know, being tuned in to ideas and turned on by ideas is one thing, but you can keep that just to self. The sharing of it is something else. I think that’s what we’re getting at. [??

Terence: well one thing is, I’m really fascinated… I think of myself as a pretty savvy person, and not easily led into false dogma

 

The question remains: which agency did he work for? Was it the FBI, or the CIA? Since it was mostly the CIA doing the psychedelic studies on the masses, I think it’s likely that he was CIA and is why the Agency was blocking my requests for his files several months ago: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/urgent-release-the-cias-terence-mckenna-foia-request-response-positive-affiliation/

However, in Acid Dreams, Marty Lee, states (pg. 173):

It was a typical sixties scene: a group of scruffy, long-haired students stood in a circle passing joints and hash pipes. The setting could have been Berkeley, Ann Arbor or any other hip campus. But these students were actually FBI agents, and the school they attended was known as “Hoover University.” Located at Quantico Marine Base in Virginia, this elite academy specialized in training G-men to penetrate left- wing organizations. To cultivate the proper counterculture image, they were told not to wash or bathe for several days before infiltrating a group of radicals. Refresher courses were also held for FBI agents who had successfully immersed themselves in the drug culture of their respective locales. For months they had smoked pot and dropped acid with unsuspecting radicals, and now the turned-on spies had a chance to swap stories with their undercover comrades. Former FBI agent Cril Payne likened the annual seminar to a class reunion. Between lectures on the New Left, drug abuse, and FBI procedure, the G-men would sneak away to the wooded grounds to get stoned while American taxpayers footed the bill.

So there is also the possibility that he was FBI.

Lastly, some have actually tried to claim that the mushrooms recruited McKenna (which is tantamount to saying that “God” told him to do it). To this we must apply some logical deduction and critical thinking:

1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

The irony is that many don’t understand that someone who is in public relations, or propaganda, would use sophism to fool people who don’t understand logical fallacies and such manipulative tricks. Actually, that’s the entire point of propaganda in the first place.

When we understand that he was an agent, as he admits, then the contradictions are removed we don’t have to twist things into believing that magical mushroom beings or UFOs hired and paid him to work in their organization in public relations and deep background to the present – which he wasn’t allowed to discuss. These are things agencies do, not mushrooms or UFOs. Such a claim that the mushrooms recruited him is clearly ridiculous. The false claims of mushroom or aliens recruiting him is clearly a case of psychological cognitive dissonance and reaching for anything to avoid facing the facts which make one feel uncomfortable when they’re faced with new information that might reveal that they were fooled. Rather than dreaming up magical beings to avoid the facts and issues, just laugh it off and admit you were fooled by those people. This way the next time it’s less likely to happen to you again.

Hear the entire lecture here (See hours 4:21:50 – 4:24:05):

Hear only McKenna’s audio clip that is quoted above:

  197 comments for “NEW MKULTRA DISCOVERY: Terence McKenna admited that he was a “deep background” and “PR” agent (CIA or FBI).

  1. Joey Hayes
    August 23, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Jan, amazing find!! Thanks to you and who ever found this. It’s quite amazing how fast this is all unraveling. Truth can be hidden not destroyed.

    Be well

    Joey

  2. Kenuvis Romero
    August 23, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    That’s a nice catch, Jan. I must admit.

    But the problem I now face with this evidence is this:

    My dad was recruited by CSIS (the canadian CIA) and did network and engineering stuff over there, as did a few of his colleagues. He is also under oath and cannot share anything about his work over there.

    The interesting thing is the field of work Terence was in. I think it’s time you move forward with that, and stop trying to prove he “was CIA”, which seems a bit conspiracy-y when we consider a regular guy with impressive work can ‘become’ CIA.

    • David Wilson
      September 3, 2013 at 9:39 am

      Agreed… but. Senor McKenna (¿’they” contacted him on Mexico, si?) was a very public and influential figure, and remains so through his writings and speeches/talks/audio seminars. Millions of people ascribe to his public utterances; there is a sub-culture of McKenna-ites who, in turn, have swayed other people to believe that this man was some sort of modern shamanic figurehead! And when people like Jan and the many others who seek knowledge/truths/insight into humans in the state of constantly be-ing have their works critiqued by those who would evoke McKenna to do so, well…

      Of course, the presumption is the “they” he’s referring to in this talk are “aliens” (¿otra vez, Senor McKenna estaba en Mejico, si?.. perhaps the aliens he referred to were —- Mexicans who “illegally” crossed into the U.S. and were tossed back across the border?!)?

      In all seriousness, like so many influential thinkers given a pulpit by the powers that be, Terrence McKenna SHOULD be perused. After all, we know with certainty that anyone who is truly dangerous to our present system, once spotlighted by the powerful as “dangerous,” is never allowed return from the hinterlands – at least not to become a sub-culture icon.

      • Bana Nistariopsis
        October 27, 2013 at 9:09 pm

        The only evidence we can find is the intent to make this debasing of culture happen. Where is the culture that has been debased? How can we prove that the psychedelic movement per se caused this culture’s return to the dark ages?

        I think I’m beginning to see what Jan’s about. He thinks there are all these benefits (if done right) but all his evidence seems to hint to his support of the whole eugenics idea. The gnostics were known to be comics.

        All we have here is an example of how the debasing of a culture could happen, but is that even the case?

        • October 27, 2013 at 11:52 pm

          Please read the full article Manufacturing the Deadhead on the front page of the site. Please don’t skip to one small article, omitting the bulk of the work on this subject provided here.

  3. opiatus croaker
    August 23, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Jan, as someone so familiar with McKenna’s work/words, did a third possibility not strike you as plausible? The tone he uses here is very similar to when he speaks of the other and in particular “The mushoom”, the “They” who recruited him were the “They” They were in La Chorerra to find and commune with… The Mushroom.

    I can picture your blinkered joy when getting this news. If this and the other video I uploaded that you love to quote is your amassed evidence against T, it’s pretty fucking flimsy.

    You’ve yet to answer me, why place so much importance on 2 minutes of a Terence lecture where he admit’s “I rarely say this” which you know full well to be the truth, none of the 100’s of hours of material repeat that part of the message and it’s only said on that one. The one that was digitized last year and before that time would have been seen by less than 1000 people, and you perceive this to be his eugenics agenda?

    As to the great ‘NEW MKULTRA DISCOVERY’ poppycock, I know, you know, we all know he means “the mushroom”

    You just want it to be this way so badly that you’ll latch onto and twist anything, totally regardless of your better understanding of the man and his message.

    Do please continue though and never stop, the unraveling, berating those who attempt to agree with you, blocking donaters who didn’t do the specified homework before asking Lord Irvin a facebook question. It’s my fav little reality soap opera on the nets. Next to Basil Fawlty you’re my favorite belligerent buffoon, condescending righteous prick and all around obnoxious shithead.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 23, 2013 at 8:33 pm

      Yes, I’ve looked into this for several years. You? poppycock? LOL… how is it poppycock? Because you say so? Where does he mean “the mushrooms”? Or are you confusing to different topics?

      I don’t want it to be any way. I’m looking at the direction the evidence points, while you all have already long ago decided it to be your religion and refuse to look at things point by point in context. He’s running from the FBI, he gets caught, they give him a job in the ORGANIZATION.

      …here is an interesting episode regarding McKenna being chased by Interpol and the FBI – from which no conclusion is ever mentioned. As Henk from Europe emailed me after this original article was published:

      In 1969, McKenna traveled to Nepal led by his “interest in Tibetan painting and hallucinogenic shamanism.”[6] During his time there, he studied the Tibetan language and worked as a hashish smuggler, until “one of his Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U. S. Customs.” He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol.[6] He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]

      Note he fled to avoid capture by Interpol but then after a time he casually returns to Berkeley?

      True Hallucinations page 166: “This decision to depart California (Henk:and return to the Amazon) was hailed by my circle in Berkeley. Concern for my mental state was rife among my friends, and rumor had reached us that the FBI was aware that I was somewhere back inside the country and had begun looking for me.”

      First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think.

      Attempts to get an answer from Terence’s brother, Dennis, regarding the above episode have failed. It seems they want us to believe that Terence just went from being wanted by Interpol and the FBI to just casually lecturing about psychedelics. What happened in the interim? Someone must know the answer.”

      But have you read his own books? He talks about running to La Chorerra to escape the FBI. Why would you ignore that? I wonder if you’ve ever read his books at all. He speaks of this event more than once and it’s also mentioned above.

      How is it flimsy, exactly? You don’t say. You ignore his own words about being chased by the FBI for drug smuggling and then go back to the mushroom thing, but there were also two trips. So you have a chronology issue. He went BACK to La Chorerra to avoid capture, as he himself states.

      He rarely says it because it would reveal him as an agent. But since this lecture is at Esalen, which was a center for MKULTRA, he was free to speak with his friends and the other agents there.

      But in fact, he also popularized the mushrooms by creating the first home grow method, which fits perfectly with the CIA and MKULTRA’s promotion of psychedelics… see the last 30 or 40 shows we’ve done covering these topics extensively.

      Berating those who agree with me, like your post here that ignores the facts that he himself admits he was running from the FBI? Checking the history, you’ve never donated once. But I like all of your name calling. This reveals that you already know your position is entirely flawed and that’s why you’re resorting to it. It’s an insecurity thing due to your own cognitive dissonance and not looking at or reading everything closely.

      Be well, and good luck name calling and berating while accusing others of the same. LOL. I hope that works out for you.

      • opiatus croaker
        August 23, 2013 at 8:48 pm

        The name calling is a gift, always a gift

        It gives you the opportunity to run from the question I’ve asked you 3 times now.

        The fourth:

        “You’ve yet to answer me, why place so much importance on 2 minutes of a Terence lecture where he admit’s “I rarely say this” which you know full well to be the truth, none of the 100′s of hours of material repeat that part of the message and it’s only said on that one. The one that was digitized last year and before that time would have been seen by less than 1000 people, and you perceive this to be his eugenics agenda?”

        I have read his books, didn’t ignore that he was running from the FBI.
        Yes, Yes Jan, he says he was running from the FBI, not running to them to make a deal. It’s very clear.

        • Jan Irvin
          August 23, 2013 at 9:50 pm

          Actually, I did address that… it doesn’t matter how many times he doesn’t say it… obviously if he went out telling the public that he’s an agent that wouldn’t work. But at Esalen, at private lectures in 1994 where much of MKULTRA was headquatered, he was amongst friends.

          Maybe read more carefully:

          “He rarely says it because it would reveal him as an agent. But since this lecture is at Esalen, which was a center for MKULTRA, he was free to speak with his friends and the other agents there.”

          I’ve answered every one of your questions. If you’re incapable of looking at the evidence and not calling for space aliens or what have you, then your own fallacies are not my concern.

          I’ve further extended all of the quotes from McKenna’s true Hallucinations to make it perfectly clear.

          Are you even aware that I’m the one who in 2002 released most of McKenna’s audio? I’ve been studying him for many, many years.

          It doesn’t matter how many people HEARD his admission. The point is he admitted it. Again, use some common sense. If he went around telling everyone he wasn’t an agent, then his whole under cover with MKULTRA wouldn’t work.

          Maybe you ought to see the trivium study section to the left and study the logical fallacies.

          • opiatus croaker
            August 23, 2013 at 10:06 pm

            No smartarse, you didn’t.

            I’m referring to the talk you claim is proof of his eugenics agenda. Do learn to read old chap, the word “eugenics” was a clue, keep up to speed Mr. Trivium, you’re the one waffling on about aliens, never mentioned them myself.

            From Pinchbeck’s page (where you ignored it twice)

            “Jan Irvin, when anyone does address your work you choose to ignore the question and focus on your continuing rage. I shall repeat. “Ok, that’s part of what ***the mushroom said***. And that may seem radical and some circles, but not here perhaps. It also said something else which I rarely mention, ***but since you brought it up***” It’s quite true Jan, McKenna rarely does mention it, as you well know. As someone who put out hours of McKenna material on the net (and continues to profit by selling it on your site) why are you using quotes from a talk that was digitized and only surfaced on the net last year? Seems to me he wasn’t pushing this eugenics thing too hard. Before then, let’s be generous, maybe 1000 people had heard that rap. Please enlighten us as to why a 2 minute bit of dialogue that less than 1000 people had head before 2012 is such damning evidence against McKenna.”

            Clearly I’m aware of the McKenna you released to the net, you’re very proud of that and tell everyone whenever the opportunity arises. As I pointed out above, you also continue to profit from McKenna’s work.

  4. opiatus croaker
    August 23, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    “I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better”

    Growing mushrooms/selling mushrooms. The less said the better because the guy was ON THE RUN FROM THE FBI.

    “And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.”

    PR for “The Mushroom” “They” are you so stuck in your reality tunnel that you don’t see this possibility? You cast aspersions on my familiarity with his work when it’s clear to anyone who has spent the time listening to his talks that, that is the voice he uses when invoking “the other”. Did you ever listen to the stuff you put out there Jan or just kick back and profit from others work? (which he still does, buy all your McKenna needs at the Gnostic Media Store).

    • Jan Irvin
      August 23, 2013 at 9:53 pm

      The mushrooms recruited him… PR for the mushroom… ridiculous. Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations? Or does a spy agency? -Would they tell him the less said the better “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do? Are they able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something the agency would do? Are they able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for SMUGGLING? Or is that something the Agency would do? Do they answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something the agency would do? LOL.

      When we understand that he was an agent, as he admits, then the contradictions are removed we don’t have to twist things into believing that magical mushroom beings hired and payed him to work in their organization in public relations and deep background to the present – which he wasn’t allowed to discuss. LOL.

      “And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization”. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.”

      Try to think more clearly.

      Here’s a whole lot of background study on McKenna and his influences. Maybe get current with the research first and all of the MKULTRA work we’ve done.

      You’re obviously just confused because all of this has caused what in psychology is known as “cognitive dissonance” for you. It’s ok, I know you want to have heroes and idols and what not, but maybe you should consider the evidence more deeply that we’ve been compiling for years here and realize that you’ve been had and laugh it off. This attitude of yours is only going to continue your mind control. Just laugh it off and say “ha, they got me but it won’t happen next time!”. You don’t have to hold onto every one of your beliefs like a religion.

      http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-1227

  5. opiatus croaker
    August 23, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    “The mushrooms recruited him… PR for the mushroom… ridiculous.”

    You do claim to be familiar with his work, right?

    “Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations? Would they tell him the less said the better?”

    Where does he say the mushroom said, “the less said the better”? Oh, he didn’t that would be you twisting his words. McKenna says this himself.

    “Are they able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for SMUGGLING? Do they answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? LOL.”

    This assumes that Interpol and the FBI caught him, where is the evidence of this? Your “NEW MKULTRA DISCOVERY” priceless!!!!

    • Jan Irvin
      August 23, 2013 at 11:37 pm

      Obviously he admits that they offered him a job… “And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization”. If they didn’t catch him, they couldn’t make him an offer or recruit him. Just use a little bit of common sense here. It’s really not that hard.

      Lastly, some have actually tried to claim that the mushrooms recruited McKenna. To this we must apply some logical deduction and critical thinking:

      1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations? Or does a spy agency?
      2) What would a mushroom need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency agency would have?
      3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
      4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
      5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
      6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
      7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

      When we understand that he was an agent, as he admits, then the contradictions are removed we don’t have to twist things into believing that magical mushroom beings or UFOs hired and payed him to work in their organization in public relations and deep background to the present – which he wasn’t allowed to discuss. These are things agencies do, not mushrooms or UFOs. Such a claim that the mushrooms recruited him is clearly ridiculous. The false claims of mushroom or aliens recruiting him is clearly a case of psychological cognitive dissonance and reaching for anything to avoid facing the facts which make one feel uncomfortable when they’re faced with new information that might reveal that they were fooled. Rather than dreaming up magical beings to avoid the facts and issues, just laugh it off and admit you were fooled by those people. This way next time it’s less likely to happen to you again.
      – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.TSSdNoku.dpuf

      • opiatus croaker
        August 23, 2013 at 11:47 pm

        You’re now replying to answers by asking the same questions I answered

        But wait Jan!

        You’ve dodged my other question FIVE TIMES now.

        Here it is for a 6th time…..

        (from above)

        No smartarse, you didn’t.

        I’m referring to the talk you claim is proof of his eugenics agenda. Do learn to read old chap, the word “eugenics” was a clue, keep up to speed Mr. Trivium, you’re the one waffling on about aliens, never mentioned them myself.

        From Pinchbeck’s page (where you ignored it twice)

        “Jan Irvin, when anyone does address your work you choose to ignore the question and focus on your continuing rage. I shall repeat. “Ok, that’s part of what ***the mushroom said***. And that may seem radical and some circles, but not here perhaps. It also said something else which I rarely mention, ***but since you brought it up***” It’s quite true Jan, McKenna rarely does mention it, as you well know. As someone who put out hours of McKenna material on the net (and continues to profit by selling it on your site) why are you using quotes from a talk that was digitized and only surfaced on the net last year? Seems to me he wasn’t pushing this eugenics thing too hard. Before then, let’s be generous, maybe 1000 people had heard that rap. Please enlighten us as to why a 2 minute bit of dialogue that less than 1000 people had head before 2012 is such damning evidence against McKenna.”

        Clearly I’m aware of the McKenna you released to the net, you’re very proud of that and tell everyone whenever the opportunity arises. As I pointed out above, you also continue to profit from McKenna’s work.

        And again I repeat and again I copy/paste

        “The mushrooms recruited him… PR for the mushroom… ridiculous.”

        You do claim to be familiar with his work, right?

        • opiatus croaker
          August 24, 2013 at 12:50 am

          It’s curious to see you highlight McKenna’s quoting of ***the mushroom said*** when it suits your needs, but when it doesn’t…

          “The mushrooms recruited him… PR for the mushroom… ridiculous.”

          Explain!

          • david llewellyn foster
            August 24, 2013 at 8:41 am

            I’m not about to be seduced into any partisan dispute here, but listening to the short TM segment leaves me with mixed perceptions, in a bit of a double jeopardy.

            Had I only heard this in the context of McKenna’s overall output, I think I would have taken it as highly indicative of his characteristic and habitually ironic sense of sanguine ambiguity. In that sense it can easily be understood and interpreted as a rhetorical trope, where he adopts this organizational metaphor for oratorical effect. So on that basis alone, one could readily infer from this that he was simply a gifted but deluded egoist, a victim of his own pretensions to psychic athletics, overly given to hypnotic, theatrical & surreal bardic flourishes.

            On the other hand, it could be inferred that it was a subtle & deliberately encoded, disguised escape clause, to salve his conscience after he had actually been recruited in a literal sense, and was thereafter on the company pay-roll, being consciously directed by “superior” psycholytic spook doctors. As it were, he was delivering a covert but truthful admission, but heavily cloaked in mystery jargon to deflect the risk of embarrassing exposure.

            The thing is this….and it is the same for all the characters implicated in this nutty psychedelic zeitgeist display ~ a mighty big show indeed, far more spectacular than even the wildest jazz-intoxicated abstract expressionist retrospective ~ even for the lionized Huxley….who, after all, was a genuine literary man, like Pound or Joyce and all the rest….no; my point is this ~ was McKenna an artist? Or was he a resourceful opportunist, who like Tim Leary, eventually ran out of steam when the drugs ran into extant ceremonial (ie theurgic) protocols, about which he was not terribly well versed, nor at all practiced; thus never comfortable, nor exactly wise enough, to study sufficiently deeply or enter into as a serious aspirant to (authentic) occult mysteries? Mysteries for which he professed a genuine respect & even allegiance, but the consequences of intimate engagement with which he actually feared, because it might have challenged his sense of self-importance ~ & public “destiny?”

            I mean, we all know the qualities of esoteric experience entheogens can confer, and their delusive potential; but how we pursue, internalize and come to terms with their apocalyptic instruction, remains a challenging task to say the least. I’m not sure that either Mckenna or Leary, ever fully subscribed to the Benny Shanon doctrine of perpetual study.

            As for Huxley, I think he fell prey to his own sense of superior intelligence, largely due to his background & “connections.”

          • elly dozer
            August 25, 2013 at 11:44 am

            Dude you obviously have an agenda or are being willfully ignorant of the evidence here…..you come here to refute, deny, and muddy up an otherwise clear connection of Terrence with some less than holy enterprise….

            He’s not here to look at the fact he’s here to argue!!!!
            Don’t waste yur time folks!

        • T_Reznor
          August 24, 2013 at 1:28 am

          You sir, seem to have a truly dizzying intellect, spiraling in circles, without attempting to connect any of Mr. Irvin’s answers as they apply to your confusing “question” you claim to have asked so many times, in various forums across the interwebs.

          Correct me if I am wrong, but Your Question amounts to “Please enlighten us as to why a 2 minute bit of dialogue that less than 1000 people had head before 2012 is such damning evidence against McKenna.” What difference does the number of people, or the length of time of the admission have to do with validity of the statement? Those are irrelevant factors, in an attempt to reframe McKenna’s slip-up or admission into a casual off-hand exaggeration we should pay no attention to.

          That’s like saying (theoretically)that if Dick Cheney admitted to planning 9/11 on video tape, but only to a small group of PNAC Members, during 2 minutes of a 2 hour talk on Dominating the Resources of the Middle East, that the evidence and admission are somehow irrelevant because he never promoted the admission on a larger scale or at greater length? Argument Ad Populum much, bro? That kind of fallacious logic doesn’t hold any water to me.

          Now since you also want to deny the Eugenics-evidence connection (again, since you equate, “Terence didn’t say it LOTS, so let’s just pretend he said it NEVER”, why not be open to the fact, that even if he wasn’t nefariously plotting with Bill Gates-like fervor to inject pregnant 3rd-world women with HGH to make them spontaneously abort their babies, his admitted positions as a “Humanist”, and “Feminist”, and stances on reducing the number of Male children on the planet all happen to align exactly with the Eugenics philosophy. Show me some evidence of McKenna saying something to the effect of “Eugenics is bad, m’kay?”, and i’ll weigh that against his recorded admissions during talks where he seemed to think he was in a non-judgemental environment with “his peeps” to let these vulnerabilities slip-in. (not unlike Mitt Romney, when he made his 47% comment during the last sElection cycle)

          I was as big a fan of McKenna and the ideas of his I agreed with a big long time ago, and didn’t really open up to this potential conspiratorial version of his history until 2012 came and went, and so many of my previous beliefs have been turned upside down, and i’ve realized how many different ways i’ve been duped, from New Age bullshit i believed in to psychedelics giving us evolutionary powers – I discovered when you actually do due diligence, you can often trace these ideas back to their roots, and who created them, and who they were connected to, and suddenly things make way more sense with that added context.

          An evidence based reality built upon observation, conceptualization, extrapolation and refinement of ideas seems to work a lot better than unseen beliefs, abstract ideas (the spirit of the mushrooms recruited him!), fallacious but convenient logic loops, and bludgeoning others with accusations until you wear them down into giving up, compromising, or running away. It’s the transition from Intellectual Dishonesty to Intellectual Integrity.

          I wish McKenna was all benevolent, that gov’t intelligence didn’t foment movements like Psychedelia and Environmentalism and Feminism, and that DMT in psilocybin was this mystical answer, and for a while, I believed that all to be the case.

          And then I woke up, was upset for a little while, got over it, and re-adjusted my paradigm. I’m less and less surprised, and more and more empowered with a greater sense of certainty.

          Perhaps Jan could use softer gloves upon people when debating and arguing, but taking into account how much he gets shit on with Intellectually Dishonest “criticism” of his work (most of the criticism is against Him as a personality), I can see how some of that shit might spill onto others.

          Maybe McKenna really did hear voices of mushrooms, but objectively we can never prove his Subjective expression of his experiences to be The Truth. That is impossible. We can amass evidence based on his actions, statements and associations and draw conclusions. Saying a Mushroom told anyone to do anything is tantamount to saying “but God told him to do it!” and expecting someone to believe that as Proof – It does not exist, no matter how many books or talks on Gods or Mushroom’s one has published or given, so using it as evidence is about as credible as “channeled” books written by whichever deity or saviour or rock star you want to believe “spoke through” someone else.

          End rant.

          • opiatus croaker
            August 24, 2013 at 8:09 pm

            Fuck off oik, i’m gobbing with Irvin!

            As I said to chancellor Metternich at the Congress of Strasburg, “Pooh to you with knobs on.”

          • Bert Nowak
            August 24, 2013 at 10:47 pm

            I see the knobs, one of them has to turn you off or change channels or something other than upping the volume.
            McKenna was a goof. Like a magnet is drawing you into the future while the present and past ‘what’s that all about’. I liked hallucinogens because of the pretty colours and body stone (odd as well).
            Ibogaine when I want to meet and forgive myself. You might want to try it.

  6. Cody Blacklight
    August 24, 2013 at 2:57 am

    Maybe, because I’m no Trivium practitioner, my opinion doesn’t matter. However, I joined this site so I can comment on this post, and I will do it in the most respectful manner as possible….
    I have to admit, when READING the transcript(posted above) of that part of TM’s Q&A, my first inclination is to think he was talking about working for the FBI or CIA. I can respectfully understand how this can be interpreted as such. That said, as soon as I actually listened to it, those thoughts went away. I have spent countless hours of my life listening to the man, and I think anyone else who has done the same is more than familiar with his habit of referencing the entities/others/orbs. He has done so repeatedly, and on many occasions referred to them as a society or organization with their own agendas. It seems to me that many die hard psychonaughts believe that their lives are at the behest of some other power or entity on some level or another. Terence was no different, and god bless him for wanting to believe as such.
    Just because the phrase “FBI” is used in a sentence close to him talking about his personal relationship with ‘those’ who he speaks of as if they were his superiors, doesn’t make “FBI” the ones he was referring to.
    Much love. I just think that assuming he would talk about working the FBI or CIA in such an open way & out of context to anything else he is talking about in that recording, is a bit ridiculous.
    Oh, here’s this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDYdN3j2eTg

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 9:13 am

      Lastly, some have actually tried to claim that the mushrooms recruited McKenna. To this we must apply some logical deduction and critical thinking:

      1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations? Or does a spy agency?
      2) What would a mushroom need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency agency would have?
      3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
      4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
      5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
      6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
      7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

      When we understand that he was an agent, as he admits, then the contradictions are removed we don’t have to twist things into believing that magical mushroom beings or UFOs hired and payed him to work in their organization in public relations and deep background to the present – which he wasn’t allowed to discuss. These are things agencies do, not mushrooms or UFOs. Such a claim that the mushrooms recruited him is clearly ridiculous. The false claims of mushroom or aliens recruiting him is clearly a case of psychological cognitive dissonance and reaching for anything to avoid facing the facts which make one feel uncomfortable when they’re faced with new information that might reveal that they were fooled. Rather than dreaming up magical beings to avoid the facts and issues, just laugh it off and admit you were fooled by those people. This way next time it’s less likely to happen to you again.
      – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.8B4mBBbt.dpuf

      • Fenris23
        August 24, 2013 at 2:54 pm

        The question isn’t whether the mushrooms could literally recruit him AT ALL. The question is could someone with Terrence’s beliefs and experiences interpret those experiences as the mushrooms recruiting him. And he could. Deep background work? Growing and selling. Public Relations? The books explaining the things he conceives as the mushrooms wanting us to know.

        His being recruited by the mushrooms makes no sense if you don’t believe that the mushrooms have agency… but he clearly did.

        • Jan Irvin
          August 24, 2013 at 3:04 pm

          Wow, that’s an incredible stretch of pretzel logic there. I recommend you start researching his background and who originated the stuff he sold… Also, see the trivium study section to the left there. Some good material there on removing the fallacies from our thoughts. But all these somersaults to avoid facing the facts. That’s amazing. What about him running from the FBI and all? How would they pay his bills? You ignore the 7 points entirely.

          I get that he’s your hero but you need to step back and take a look at the bigger picture here.
          http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-1227

          Also, read the Manufacturing the Deadhead article on the front page.
          http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/

          Lastly, some have actually tried to claim that the mushrooms recruited McKenna (or that his beliefs and experiences interpret those experiences – which is tantamount to saying that “God” told him to do it). To this we must apply some logical deduction and critical thinking:

          1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
          2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
          3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
          4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
          5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
          6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
          7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

          When we understand that he was an agent, as he admits, then the contradictions are removed we don’t have to twist things into believing that magical mushroom beings or UFOs hired and paid him to work in their organization in public relations and deep background to the present – which he wasn’t allowed to discuss. These are things agencies do, not mushrooms or UFOs. Such a claim that the mushrooms recruited him is clearly ridiculous. The false claims of mushroom or aliens recruiting him is clearly a case of psychological cognitive dissonance and reaching for anything to avoid facing the facts which make one feel uncomfortable when they’re faced with new information that might reveal that they were fooled. Rather than dreaming up magical beings to avoid the facts and issues, just laugh it off and admit you were fooled by those people. This way the next time it’s less likely to happen to you again.
          – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.l6wvAOMS.dpuf

          • Fenris23
            August 24, 2013 at 3:18 pm

            The first four points are answered from your point of view, no, from the point of view of people who believe that the mushrooms have agency… yes. So.. those points are really really dependent on your worldview and beliefs and so WORTHLESS for deciding what meaning he attributed to his statement at that time.

            Five, six, and seven are much more interesting, but really they are questions not evidence. I do look forward to evidence other than a forced interpretation of ambiguous statements.

            He wasn’t trying to answer why he was able to come back from that difficult position, he was explaining whether or not he perceived himself as an alien ambassador, and whether he had a choice in that role. And CLEARLY he believes he is, and did. Even if you or I believe that to be utterly insane. His likening of the mushroom as like an agency recruiting him is what we in literary circles like to call a “metaphor.”

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 3:35 pm

            The problem is that you don’t realize that contradictions are lies or errors. So rather than address them to understand the facts, you dance around them.

            Please check out the trivium study section. Start with episode 49.

          • oats tao
            August 25, 2013 at 4:37 am

            Jan – Man – what’s with your Smug ass sarcasm that doesn’t help anything in a discussion? – There’s too many examples but one just above with your reply to Fenrise23 – ‘I get that he’s your hero ‘ referring to McKenna being a Hero to Fenris23. Have you lost interest in patience with people who are authentic with their curiosity ??

          • maxi eder
            February 17, 2014 at 9:21 am

            as i have had alot of discussions in my own circle i just need to make a quck comment.
            the ignorance of people even after overcomming the state of nescism is more then sad.
            if people keep on holding on their almost religious believe systems and icons there will be no evolution.
            Question not only mainstream authorities but specially those who claim to be underground authorities!
            we all remeber the “tree of knowledge” where he admits that the ufo he saw in the jungle was acutally a wishfull hallucination cause he saw the same disk he saw in a news paper article. how do u see this now after knowing that he worked for them?
            the psychedelic underground has always been under surveillance…. just look at OZORa festival where INTERPOLE where establishing a brutal example of what trauma based mind controll means when applied to a collective….
            anyway jan! u r an inspiration and don’t give up becuase of a bunch of ignorant fools.
            please check out my online petition for an open space in berlin kreuzberg
            http://www.change.org/de/Petitionen/free-cuvry

            with deepest respect from goa,
            maxi

        • elly dozer
          August 25, 2013 at 11:57 am

          Your really asking a lot. Lets say he did FALSELY claim his real experiences with the CIA or FBI were interpreted by him as mushrooms recruiting him.

          1: is he, like. Crazy?
          2: regardless of him being crazy, is the reality that he was dealing with real men and not a fiction ?even tho his interpretation was an illusion based on his perception?
          3: so are you claiming that only what Terrence imagines is truth is truth? And so in your logic, any evidence outside of what the man thinks is untrue?

          • Fenris23
            August 25, 2013 at 7:26 pm

            “1: is he, like. Crazy?”

            In the absence of any corroborating evidence for Jan’s interpretation that’s far more likely. Or at least he took things he experienced while on hallucinogens way more seriously than I would consider healthy.

            My secondary and still more likely hypothesis than him lying about everything and working for spy agencies that he professed to disagree with… perhaps he was speaking metaphorically?

      • Fenris23
        August 24, 2013 at 3:01 pm

        I do think that it is ENTIRELY possible that McKenna was recruited by an alphabet agency… I just don’t think you have the smoking gun you seem to think you do.

        • Jan Irvin
          August 24, 2013 at 3:12 pm

          Oh, I know you don’t, because you don’t believe in ANY form of certainty because you believe that you’re certain that there is no certainty. It’s a befuddled conundrum, but I get it. I used to believe in Quantum physics too until I started studying the trivium material. So I really do understand where you’re coming from. But one of the biggest things that ever freed me was finding that there is truth and that I can trust my own 5 senses, and that there are NO CONTRADICTIONS IN NATURE. ONLY IN THE MIND OF MAN. When you understand that, you’ll truly free yourself and rebuild your self-esteem back into trusting you and honoring your own mind and the way we gather all information: who what where when why and how.

          • Fenris23
            August 24, 2013 at 3:24 pm

            There is no certainty but there are hypothesis which are supported by evidence. I see no evidence here, I see bad textual analysis. Maybe you do have some ACTUAL evidence of his involvement elsewhere… care to link it?

            You can trust your 5 senses? Have you taken a psychedelic? Terence McKenna’s 5 senses told him that there were entities that he contacted while using DMT and Mushrooms that wanted things from him. I’m not so sure I can trust senses that can come to that conclusion, can you?

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 3:42 pm

            See the David Harriman lectures…

            You’re risking death by refusing to think clearly. Study the trivium material and then let’s talk about it.

        • elly dozer
          August 25, 2013 at 12:04 pm

          Your misunderstanding. Terrence possibly being a tool for mass mind control is obvious with research. Jan is speaking to how messed up your ability to reason becomes from the mind control that the Philosophical Corruption of Physics has allowed. Quantum any things are theories only. You have forgotten about causality because there is a HUGE conspiracy to screw up your rational. So while you think you understand everything and envy thing because of what you were TAUGHT not what you know to be true thru first hand knowledge— truth is you are so handicapped by what you don’t know. It’s a conundrum, for sure. Your mind is in a prison, and you defend how you got there….sad.

          • Fenris23
            August 25, 2013 at 7:22 pm

            It’s not my misunderstanding, it’s Jan’s refusal or inability to provide corroborating evidence for his contentious and counter-intentional interpretation of an utterance that only approaches sense if he cherry picks out of the context of the talk as a whole.

            He’s insisting on a convoluted hypothesis that Terence Mckenna lied about his entire belief system and worked for some spy agency or another and managed to keep such connections utterly secret while hiding among people who were very paranoid about FBI and CIA infiltration. Such a hypothesis is rather a stretch and requires better evidence than ONE statement intentionally pulled out of it’s context.

            There are two much more logical conclusions.
            1. Terence was speaking metaphorically.
            or 2. (and my personal favourite) Terence was a wackadoodle.

      • Ryan Caron
        November 25, 2013 at 6:24 pm

        I love you man, but you’re misunderstanding what he’s saying.

        I just made a post, and it’s down there somewhere, but i listened to all 5 hours of this lastnight:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2sDf-nnGQ

        and it’s clear that he’s referencing the mushrooms.

        He was joking with the crowd, and its REALLY EASY to misconstrue what he’s saying because his wording is almost too perfect that you can’t help thinking that this is really what he’s saying.

        It’s the Mushroom’s who recruited him for a PR campaign, AKA, inspired him to talk about psychedelics,

        The less said the better, he’s referring to his selling and growing of mushrooms, and the manuals he made on how to do so.

        See my other post for more clarification

        • November 25, 2013 at 7:22 pm

          LOL

          • Ryan Caron
            November 27, 2013 at 10:57 am

            Just LOL? You’re very disagreeable man, and most people resort to things like “LOL” instead of simply admitting that they made a mistake. I’m actually reading this book right now entitled “Being Wrong”– and it’s pretty jaw dropping. It talks about why people can’t admit when they’re wrong and much more. I’m not going to argue with you, and you know much I appreciate all your work. But this is a mistake. This doesn’t mean that he wasn’t dirty, but what he’s talking about here is clearly the mushrooms, and I’m not alone in my analysis after reading through these responses. Anyway, do you have any new updates on Mckenna? Did you ever try to file another FOIA? I’ve been away for awhile.

          • Ryan Caron
            November 27, 2013 at 10:59 am

            Oh, I found my other post.

            I stayed up all night last night listening to a 5 hour Mckenna lecture and this was part of it. I hate to say this, but I completely disagree with Jan for the first time ever. To me, it’s really obvious that he’s talking about the mushrooms. If you listen to the entire lecture he gave, he is talking about the mushrooms recruiting him, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind. We don’t need to apply the trivium to this. He’s joking around with the crowd–and he uses the words “They” referring to the mushrooms like 5 times in the entire speech. I think I understand Mckenna much more after listening to that 5 hour presentation all at once. He even talks about the New World Order, but uses the term “World global state” or something along those lines. Mckenna was extremely intelligent, and when he says he doesn’t believe in Conspiracy theories, what he is really saying is basically what Jan has been proving for the last year or so. Meaning, this is what Government is. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s what they’ve always done, and always will do. Government has ALWAYS done this. He talks about the bankers, how the system is fixed, how is all absolute garbage and lots more. The link is here:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2sDf-nnGQ

            If you can make it through all five hours, you will easily come to understand what he is saying. He was asked a question about how he got interested in all of this, and his answer was that “They recruited me”. He is CONSTANTLY talking about the mushrooms in this way. It’s really, really obvious. It was insight that the mushrooms gave him to start talking about psychedelics. I really hate to disagree with Jan, I haven’t had the time to look into this recently, but after listening to that five hour video last night, there is no doubt in my mind that he’s talking about the mushrooms. I mean… it’s really not even up for discussion. If i hadn’t of pulled an all nighter studying I could explain this better, but for all you believers that Mckenna was an FBI agent etc, listen to the entire video I posted. He rails against the global world and government– and many, many other things. When he is talking about being recruited….. it’s painfully obvious he’s talking about the mushrooms. It was THEY who recruited him into DEEP cover positions etc.

            ” And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present”– It’s really easy to see how this can be misconstrued, but that’s because he’s joking with the crowd. Again, watch/listen to all 5 hours: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2sDf-nnGQ

            Sorry Jan, I love you buddy but this is a mistake. It’s very easy to see how this can be misconstrued…his wording is almost too perfect to not believe he wasn’t an agent, but you have to listen to the entire thing and listen to his constant references of what the mushroom told him. It’s really obvious :( .

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2sDf-nnGQ

            Best,
            Ryan

          • November 27, 2013 at 11:34 am

            You obviously didn’t bother to read the thread, or the comments, and you’re following your religious beliefs rather than common sense. Try to READ what was written here and try to use some common sense and the trivium, because if you haven’t studied the trivium, you know nothing of what goes on here.

            Your comments are typical and thoughtless. BTW, he’s at Esalen, which we’ve shown was a CIA center. Read what’s here before leaping to fantasy for your religious beliefs and using fallacies to dismiss all the research on this website that proves he was an agent. You, BTW, as was already pointed out many times, are the one who is arguing that McKenna is lying. We are simply saying his words mean what they say, and they follow exactly with his comments regarding the FBI chase that were published elsewhere. All the contradictions are removed. You try to hold multiple contradictions at once, having cognitive dissonance, rather than understanding that contradictions are lies. So you have to actually MAKE UP your own beliefs as to what his own words say, all the while IGNORING every single detail that was already written above, and not addressing ONE SINGLE POINT, avoiding the issue all together. As above, and also THROUGHOUT the COMMENTS ON this page that you skipped over:

            Lastly, some have actually tried to claim that the mushrooms recruited McKenna (which is tantamount to saying that “God” told him to do it). To this we must apply some logical deduction and critical thinking:

            1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
            2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
            3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
            4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
            5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
            6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
            7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

            The irony is that many don’t understand that someone who is in public relations, or propaganda, would use sophism to fool people who don’t understand logical fallacies and such manipulative tricks. Actually, that’s the entire point of propaganda in the first place.

            Please, use some critical thinking, research his background in the database that was provided for your and THINK for fuck’s sake. Your comments were already covered here at length, but you think in terms of fallacies, contradictions, etc, rather than seeing them for the lies they are. Someone who is in PR is a paid liar. That’s what they are PAID to do! He admits he’s a PR man. Use your head.

            I would also recommend READING the studies on this website provided already, which cover this issue in far more detail:

            http://www.gnosticmedia.com/how-darwin-huxley-and-the-esalen-institute-launched-the-2012-and-psychedelic-revolutions-and-began-one-of-the-largest-mind-control-operations-in-history/

            http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 9:30 am

      As I wrote on August 28, 2012, in my article: How Darwin, Huxley, and the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions – and began one of the largest mind control operations in history. Some brief notes. Here I’ve added most of the pertinent quotes from Mckenna’s True Hallucinations:

      “…here is an interesting episode regarding McKenna being chased by Interpol and the FBI – from which no conclusion is ever mentioned. As Henk from Europe emailed me after this original article was published:

      [Henk] In 1969, McKenna traveled to Nepal led by his “interest in Tibetan painting and hallucinogenic shamanism.”[6] During his time there, he studied the Tibetan language and worked as a hashish smuggler, until “one of his Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U. S. Customs.”

      True Hallucinations, p. 22ff:

      Late in August of 1969 fate turned me from hash smuggler to fugitive when one of my Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U.S. Customs. I went underground and wandered throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, viewing ruins in the former and collecting butterflies in the later. Then came my time in Japan. Whether this gave me an edge on the others in experience seemed unlikely.

      True Hallucinations page 166:

      This decision to depart California (Henk:and return to the Amazon) was hailed by my circle in Berkeley. Concern for my mental state was rife among my friends, and rumor had reached us that the FBI was aware that I was somewhere back inside the country and had begun looking for me. The Bombay-to-Aspen hashish blues were catching up with me. It was, as they say, time to make a move.

      True Hallucinations pg. 179

      In February of 1970, a year before I arrived at La Chorrera, my fugitive wanderings had taken me to the island of Timor in Eastern Indonesia. Under indictment in the States for the heinous crime of importing hashish, I traveled and lived under the dramatic assumption that international police agencies were combing the globe looking for me. My cover, that of a graduate student in entomology doing field work for a degree—a butterfly collector—had worked well over the previous six months

      True Hallucinations pg. 186

      I swallowed hard. He didn’t look like the sort of person who would appreciate my stories of fighting the police at the Berkeley barricades shoulder-to-shoulder with affinity groups like the Persian Fuckers and the Acid Anarchists. Nor did my participation in the Human Be-In or the rolling orgies of the Summer of Love in the Haight-Ashbury seem appropriate to mention. And my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.
      I decided to go with the usual half-truth reserved for straight people. “I am an art historian turned biologist. I went to Nepal to study Tibetan but found that I am no linguist when it comes to Asian languages. I have returned to biology, my first love. Specifically, I am an entomologist.
      I am collecting butterflies here in Indonesia retracing the route of Alfred Russell Wallace. Wallace was the real discoverer of the theory of natural selection, but Darwin got all the credit. I identify with his underdog status. Wallace was shafted by Victorian science because he was of the wrong class and didn’t know how to play politics the way Darwin did. Wallace explored the Amazon Basin as well and if all goes well, I hope to travel and collect there too. Eventually I will write a monograph on speciation among the butterflies of Amazonas and Eastern Indonesia, which will get me a degree. Then, who knows. Teaching perhaps. Hard to say.

      [Henk] He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol. He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]

      Note he fled to avoid capture by Interpol but then after a time he casually returns to Berkeley?

      First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think.

      Attempts to get an answer from Terence’s brother, Dennis, regarding the above episode have failed. It seems they want us to believe that Terence just went from being wanted by Interpol and the FBI to just casually lecturing about psychedelics. What happened in the interim? Someone must know the answer.”

      We finally have the conclusion to what happened to Terence after the FBI had caught him:

      Questioner: I’m real curious about one thing. Why is it important for you to do this?

      Terence McKenna: I wonder myself. You mean am I the alien ambassador whether I like it or not? [laughs]. Well, often when asked this question, I’ve said it beats honest work. I mean, my brother is a PhD in three subjects and works in hard science and yet I don’t think it’s brought him immense happiness. Not that he’s despondent. But I was always kind of a slider. You know?

      And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

      I think ideas get me high. And I like the feeling of understanding and I love diversity to the point of weirdness.

      Questioner: It seems that there’s more to it than that for you. Because, you know, being tuned in to ideas and turned on by ideas is one thing, but you can keep that just to self. The sharing of it is something else. I think that’s what we’re getting at. [??

      Terence: well one thing is, I’m really fascinated… I think of myself as a pretty savvy person, and not easily led into false dogma…

      – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.3UnXsAHo.dpuf

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 9:42 am

      See also T Reznor’s reply above.

    • Paul McGee
      August 27, 2013 at 10:59 am

      I have to agree. Even with the limited exposure to McKenna’s speeches that I have, I also get the distinct impression that he was speaking about being the PR person for “the mushrooms” not for the FBI.

      I support all lines of questioning, but this hardly seems proof positive of any conspiracy. Applying logic to an allusory statement is not proof of anything. McKenna likes to speak allegorically, which makes it easy to misunderstand him unless you are following his train of thought.

      Just my opinion, I’ve been wrong before.

      • Jan Irvin
        August 27, 2013 at 10:59 am

        I find it very funny, and sad, that people have so much trouble with Terence McKenna’s own words. In fact, they entirely avoid them to make assinine comments about alien ambassadors and how Terence is actually talking about mushrooms recruiting him.. But a little common sense goes a long way. If you remove his sophist rhetoric, the theme follows straight through:

        True Hallucinations, p. 22ff:

        “Late in August of 1969 fate turned me from hash smuggler to fugitive when one of my Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U.S. Customs. I went underground and wandered throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, viewing ruins in the former and collecting butterflies in the later. Then came my time in Japan. Whether this gave me an edge on the others in experience seemed unlikely.”

        True Hallucinations page 166:

        “This decision to depart California [and return to the Amazon] was hailed by my circle in Berkeley. Concern for my mental state was rife among my friends, and rumor had reached us that the FBI was aware that I was somewhere back inside the country and had begun looking for me. The Bombay-to-Aspen hashish blues were catching up with me. It was, as they say, time to make a move.”

        True Hallucinations pg. 179

        “In February of 1970, a year before I arrived at La Chorrera, my fugitive wanderings had taken me to the island of Timor in Eastern Indonesia. Under indictment in the States for the heinous crime of importing hashish, I traveled and lived under the dramatic assumption that international police agencies were combing the globe looking for me. My cover, that of a graduate student in entomology doing field work for a degree—a butterfly collector—had worked well over the previous six months”

        True Hallucinations pg. 186

        “And my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.
        I decided to go with the usual half-truth reserved for straight people. “I am an art historian turned biologist. I went to Nepal to study Tibetan but found that I am no linguist when it comes to Asian languages. I have returned to biology, my first love. Specifically, I am an entomologist.
        I am collecting butterflies here in Indonesia retracing the route of Alfred Russell Wallace. Wallace was the real discoverer of the theory of natural selection, but Darwin got all the credit. I identify with his underdog status. Wallace was shafted by Victorian science because he was of the wrong class and didn’t know how to play politics the way Darwin did. Wallace explored the Amazon Basin as well and if all goes well, I hope to travel and collect there too. Eventually I will write a monograph on speciation among the butterflies of Amazonas and Eastern Indonesia, which will get me a degree. Then, who knows. Teaching perhaps. Hard to say.”

        [Henk]
        “He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol. He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]
        Note he fled to avoid capture by Interpol but then after a time he casually returns to Berkeley?
        First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think.”

        Esalen Dec. 1994:

        And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present. –

        And then if we simply compare it to this same type of conversation here where they openly admit they’re agents, we see that the scenario is exactly the same, and fits with the same agenda that we’ve attempted to expose the last couple years:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qaumQvMWBA

        This comes directly from Leary’s own mouth.. .but if it’s not understood that everyone in the room is an agent, then it might be overlooked. Each person’s background needs to be looked up.
        Myron Stolaroff, Sidney Cohen, Al Hubbard, Timothy Leary, Oscar Janiger, Humphry Osmond, John Lilly, Willis Harmon, Nick Bercel – every one of them are agents for MKULTRA… And they admit it and joke about their purpose for the entire operation. But if people won’t study it, they won’t ever get how they marketed this shit to us..

        Leary: I think, you know, sometimes it’s interesting to think too, as you’re going around the country, I’m sure you’ve all experienced… you talk to, uh, middle-aged, fairly respectable people in Tucson Arizona, and they say “this is where the acid thing really happened.” [Laughs] Tucson! In San Francisco “this is where it really happened.” The lower East side, you know, they say “that’s where it really happened.” And, uh, no one has ever really, uh, uh told us what was really going on in Los Angeles during those, uh, years. And I think there was much more done down here, there was a much wider range, there were more doctors involved. There were more scientists, and we…

        Cohen: You’re talking about Gerald and all of us.

        Leary: Yes, right right. Yeah. And, uh, Ivan. Uh, of course…uh, then, there of course, was part [break in audio – mic muffled] coolness of the Los Angele [break in audio – mic muffled]s, uh, [break in audio – mic muffled] cell, whatever you want to call it. But they kept a, you kept a, uh…

        Cohen: Would you mind not calling it a cell. Let’s call it a cluster!

        Leary: All right. [Room laughs] Our undercover agents in Los Angeles were very cool about, uh, and yet they did more in a very laid-back way, uh, and it’s every bit as public as some of the other, you know, the buses running around the country [Ken Kesey he and the Merry pranksters – here identified as undercover agents]….

        Janiger: Yeah, and then Zinnberg says that the visionary experience, and all of the things he was doing at Harvard, and the others, his residence, and the rest he was giving LSD to, they never had a visionary, or ecstatic, or mystic experience. That the whole thing was a California invention, he said.

        Leary: They’re right!

        Janiger: The only time it happened, was when you cross the Colorado River.

  7. steve sims
    August 24, 2013 at 6:20 am

    As to the deep cover allusion, more needs to be corroborated. So, he cut a deal. It’s not that uncommon. Most people that cut deals play both sides of the fence out of necessity. I think he was extremely lucky to continue delving into the psychedelic experience without risk of repercussion. IMO, the attempt to use psychedelics as a mind-control medium was an abject failure. The behaviors were too unpredictable, too broad in scope to be controlled, with the added problem of opening the third eye, discovering spirituality, becoming less-inclined to conformity. He hardly fits the profile of a psychopathic federal agent. It does no good to think in terms of absolutes, as if everybody who was ever employed by some agency is to be vilified to the same degree. Also, most of those rock stars were misfits to their highbrow families. Sure, there was meddling and corruption, but did they really corrupt the message? it was the consumer who ultimately decided what was “cool,” not some government agent or satanic priest. I contend that the Fabian Method did not work well with the arts, not nearly what they hoped. Psychedelics led to an explosion of creativity, not a bunch of parroting stooges like Universities excrete.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 9:11 am

      It’s his own words… But it also shows that he was a PROPAGANDIST… a PR man. This is a paid liar.

      • opiatus croaker
        August 24, 2013 at 8:36 pm

        Just answer the question already, you awful person.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 9:18 am

      Lastly, some have actually tried to claim that the mushrooms recruited McKenna. To this we must apply some logical deduction and critical thinking:

      1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations? Or does a spy agency?
      2) What would a mushroom need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency agency would have?
      3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
      4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
      5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
      6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
      7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

      When we understand that he was an agent, as he admits, then the contradictions are removed we don’t have to twist things into believing that magical mushroom beings or UFOs hired and paid him to work in their organization in public relations and deep background to the present – which he wasn’t allowed to discuss. These are things agencies do, not mushrooms or UFOs. Such a claim that the mushrooms recruited him is clearly ridiculous. The false claims of mushroom or aliens recruiting him is clearly a case of psychological cognitive dissonance and reaching for anything to avoid facing the facts which make one feel uncomfortable when they’re faced with new information that might reveal that they were fooled. Rather than dreaming up magical beings to avoid the facts and issues, just laugh it off and admit you were fooled by those people. This way next time it’s less likely to happen to you again.

    • elly dozer
      August 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm

      Steve, are you ok with the Government and celebrities working together?
      Totally normal? What is the artist is willing to work with them? Is that ok to you? As long as they are doing wholesome positive things, right?

      Wake up and smell the fascism already.

      • steve sims
        August 26, 2013 at 7:05 am

        elly, (assuming this is addressed to me; why didn’t you click the reply below my post?)
        The answer to your question is contained within my statement. There are no absolutes. Only people who think in terms of absolutes.
        Tell me you don’t pay taxes. Every penny you pay in taxes supports hegemony, eugenics, genocide, terror, and psychopathy. You pay more taxes than you could ever imagine, especially in the form of cost-added-to-price. You buy shit that was made in China. So don’t jump on the self-righteous bandwagon. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
        I could care less about celebrity or celebrities. McKenna was an intellectual, far more concerned with the exploration of ideas than the promotion of ideology.
        There are much bigger fish to fry. Did Terence recruit & train a bunch of sycophants destroying lives? Did he launch any terror units? Seriously, what an easy target he makes. Who in the establishment is going to defend him? Grow some balls and go after the Zionists & Globalists like Kissinger, Brzezinsky, Maurice Strong… Those are the real threat.

  8. Lygeia
    August 24, 2013 at 11:15 am

    While I am a little more open to the concept of discarnate entities who may interfere in our affairs, and it is possible that mushrooms have a consciousness, and organizations like the FBI and CIA may be filled with people who are prime movers and exemplars of what the “mushroom” may want (essentially “agents” of the “mushroom”), it is fairly obvious that Terence McKenna was working for one of those alphabet agencies.

    As you so aptly put it, how does one go from being on the lam from Interpol, the FBI, and the CIA for drug smuggling, to lecturing publicly on psychedelics, as well as having one’s severe and extreme financial problems magically fixed?

    The answer is one becomes an agent and is put on the payroll of Interpol, the FBI, and/or the CIA or one of their sister of child agencies.

    While I am actually sympathetic to the idea of a psychedelics-based culture (or at least a subculture) where one ingests these substances, rests, and then returns refreshed to their society with inspiration and ideas, one shouldn’t abandon one’s critical faculties.

    The “machine elves” that Terence McKenna spoke about from his supposed trips on DMT always did sound a bit to me like the bureaucrats in a large organization. This doesn’t mean that all of his ideas are wrong, and maybe he actually outsmarted these agencies that employed him for a while, but it does seem to have been a bargain with the devil. He died very young of a very strange, aggressive, and fast-acting cancer.

  9. Paul Short
    August 24, 2013 at 11:44 am

    McKenna admits in his own words and in his own recorded voice that he was recruited, worked in “deep background” positions and then spent 15 years in PR (newspeak for ‘propaganda’).

    To anyone reading these comments: I hope y’all are smart enough to see that the commenters arguing that McKenna meant something else by his admission are just trying to cast enough doubt to make you uncertain of what you can plainly hear with your own ears in the audio.

    Doubt is the enemy of certainty. And certainty is what propagandists do not want you to achieve because an uncertain mind can be programmed to believe whatever contrived bullshit they want.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 1:02 pm

      Very nicely said.

    • Fenris23
      August 24, 2013 at 3:03 pm

      Certainty is the enemy of learning. There is nothing in this world that we can be certain of, nothing. And the moment you believe you are certain you lose that most important human potential, the ability to realize that you are wrong.

      • Jan Irvin
        August 24, 2013 at 3:09 pm

        And how would you find out if you’re wrong? How is certainty an enemy? I’m certain that 1 + 1 = 2. I’m certain that I’m at a computer typing to someone who has been stripped of his trust in his own 5 senses to tell him the truth. I wonder though if he’s ever questioned who taught him to believe this, and if it was to his own benefit?

        Those who tell you that there is no truth are lying to you and fooling you. Do you think you live in a quantum physics insane asylum where every time you go to the store you get random change, where your car is in a different place every time, where your house magically appears randomly everywhere and anywhere, that you can just walk into anyone’s house and stay there? Do you believe this is the world of Roger Rabbit?

        Who taught you not to fact check, question and trust your own 5 senses? This has caused you to have very low selt-esteem, so low in fact that you don’t trust yourself to give you any answers what so ever about anything. Don’t you find this frightening?

        I really think you ought to start considering these things more deeply and start removing the fallacies, or deceptions, or lies from your mind that you use to fool yourself.

        Just because someone else of “authority” told you not to trust yourself and that you can know nothing doesn’t mean it’s true. The irony of your statement is in itself, which you failed to see. You are making a statement of certainty by saying “There is nothing in this world that we can be certain of, nothing.” Well how can you be so certain? LOL.

        • Fenris23
          August 24, 2013 at 3:27 pm

          “Well how can you be so certain? LOL.”
          Best point you’ve made. lol.

          I do not believe in certainties, I believe in the best guess I can make based on the evidence and my own reasoning. I’m not certain because at any moment the piece of evidence that proves me wrong and recontextualizes everything could come in. I’m waiting for that evidence in this case.

          Show me some ACTUAL evidence that McKenna was involved with the CIA or other agency.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 3:34 pm

            See above.

          • Paul Short
            August 24, 2013 at 4:29 pm

            Fenrise23 said: “Show me some ACTUAL evidence that McKenna was involved with the CIA or other agency.

            “ACTUAL” = The ACT McKenna performed when he spoke in the recorded audio in Jan’s post above.

            “Evidence” = The audio recording of McKenna’s voice, and the admissions in said audio recording.

            “…involved with the CIA or other agency…” = the following quote from the audio and transcription above:

            And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

            There you go. Now you can be certain.

        • Bert Nowak
          August 24, 2013 at 11:17 pm

          Listen to Richard Allen Miller’s explanation of our conscious existence, the one that we perceive we live in as holographic universe in 5 space or one of my favourites;life is a synthetic journey your ‘will’ plots for itself. A reasonable point of view might be to discuss something other than getting screwed by McKenna, perhaps with this topic. Why isn’t rape called surprise sex?

          • Bert Nowak
            August 24, 2013 at 11:24 pm

            Another topic might be; how many dead Syrians does it take to create WWIII?
            nah, sorry.
            Terrance McKenna is so riveting.
            By the way I met a DA from LA who went to Esalen Institute in 1982 and his story to me was they worked the crap out of you and then fed you lectures. hmmm

      • elly dozer
        August 25, 2013 at 12:15 pm

        Exactly. Please tell us how we know if we are wrong? You just feel it? Or do you know it? Be an adult, now….

    • Fenris23
      August 24, 2013 at 6:00 pm

      Can’t reply to your reply so replying here. The evidence you point out is a series of words spoken by Terence McKenna. That series of words is spoken as an explanation of whether or not he is an “Alien Ambassador” and whether he holds that position regardless of his choices. It is only by ignoring that context that you can make it mean what you want it to mean. That isn’t evidence, it’s cherry picking… it’s bad textual analysis. It’s bad thinking. When you intentionally divorce an utterance from it’s context in order to fit it into a preconceived notion, you aren’t thinking logically, or consistently, or scientifically.

      It might be easier for you to assume he means a human agency rather than the craziness of believing that mushrooms recruited him, but that’s pretty obviously not what he meant. Essentially your idea violates Occam’s razor. When I hear someone uttering a crazy belief system I think, oh he has crazy beliefs, not oh a spy agency has hired him to intentionally spread crazy beliefs for nefarious but unexplained purposes. In the absence of any other evidence there is no reason to interpret his statements in the manner you are interpreting them.

      • Jan Irvin
        August 24, 2013 at 9:53 pm

        The alien ambassador is a joke… read the full thing in context with his running from the FBI, then they put him in a position, then they moved him to propaganda. This wasn’t an alien or a mushroom. People have organizations and propaganda departments and positions… It’s incredible that you can ignore every other point and focus on what was clearly the rouse in his statement about being an alien ambassador… first you have to prove that aliens exist. Then you have to prove they have organizations and agencies and propaganda departments… where as we don’t have to leap to magical false conclusions when we see the obvious human being involved, the FBI and Interpol, that he was running from and then gave him a job.

        Why leap to mystical, fanciful conclusions about fairies and goblins and what not? We know people exist, we know they have organizations and positions and propaganda. No mystical bs necessary to reach a logical conclusion.

        • Fenris23
          August 24, 2013 at 10:40 pm

          I’m not leaping to ANY conclusions, fanciful or otherwise. I don’t require that elves, fairies or goblins exist. All that I need to believe in order to find his statements consistent is that he believed them, or that he was speaking metaphorically about his experiences with psychedelics. Given how often he makes claims that mushrooms or DMT or entities he contacts through these substances have a form of agency, it’s reasonable to believe that he believed such or that he fairly consistently used metaphors of agency when talking about drug experiences. Thus it’s a far simpler explanation of his utterances that he believed them or was speaking metaphorically about his experiences. In the absence of corroborating evidence there is no reason to interpret his statements about his drug experiences as being about his being recruited by spy agencies. And as I said I’m not jumping to conclusions, I’m open to the possibility that he was recruited or used by lettered agencies, you’ve just failed to make a convincing case for that. If you show me some evidence that corroborates your interpretation of his statement, I’m willing to change my position.

  10. Kenuvis Romero
    August 24, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Jan,

    I must admit that I have to retract my last comment. I consider myself rational, and after listening to the lecture again, it’s almost insanity to deny that he could have be talking about the mushrooms. McKenna was a comic, a bard and skilled with his words and used endless metaphors.

    You had me going for a while, but in all seriousness, I think it’s you who the joke is being played on.

    It’s an honest mistake, and I agreed with you before listening to the clip, but it really seems a bit far-fetched that even you would interpret that as the FBI. You talk a lot about cognitive dissonance… which leads me to wonder if you’ve looked at yourself in these terms.

    I hear you, the trivium is great, but it won’t stop you from wishful thinking…

    All the best, keep doing what you’re doing. Even if this article seems flimsy compared to others (to me) I know you do great work.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 7:21 pm

      One question. I just want to be clear: You believe that the mushrooms moved him from his position of deep background to propaganda for 15 years, where he worked to the present (1994). Do I hear you correctly?

      Nevermind this lecture is from Esalen, which ourselves and many other researchers have shown was central to MKULTRA – where he would have felt free to discuss such things. But I just want to be clear that this is actually your belief.

      1) What is a bard? “In medieval Gaelic and British culture a bard was a professional poet, employed by a patron, such as a monarch or nobleman, to commemorate the patron’s ancestors and to praise the patron’s own activities.”

      So it’s a professional poet EMPLOYED BY A PATRON, SUCH AS A MONARCH (or, let me point out, the CIA, etc), to commemorate the PATRON’S ancestors and to PRAISE the PATRON’S OWN activities. So when you use words like “bard” and poet, do you look up their definitions? A sophist is someone, such as a bard, who is trained in the MISAPPLICATION of the trivium too trick and fool people. I recommend you study the trivium before you pretend to know what it is and how it works.

      I also find it funny that you instantly turn the attack at me “I think it’s you who the joke is being played on.” and “which leads me to wonder if you’ve looked at yourself in these terms.” rather than presenting specific points in how the breakdown is wrong. It’s always the case when someone attacks the presenter rather than the information that they’re arguing from the weaker position, rather than looking at the links and the database where we have extensively mapped out his background:
      http://www.gnosticmedia.com/wasson-mk-ultra-brain-investigation-database-v-2-8-is-now-available-for-download/

      It’s ironic that you dismiss the evidence before you, use fallacies to dismiss it, attack me and say it’s wishful thinking. When we talk about cognitive dissonance, just study the last 3 papers we’ve published here, including the Manufacturing the Deadhead article and look at all of the evidence as a whole – McKenna was covered there extensively too. I seriously understand that he’s your hero/God/Saint and you really want to believe that you weren’t fooled.

      Look at the big picture – Gordon Wasson was MKULTRA Subproject 58, they’re running all of the modern stuff out of Esalen, where McKenna was the scholar in residence for several years. Allow the evidence to lead you to conclusions rather than fallacies and false attacks on the messenger.

      • Jan Irvin
        August 24, 2013 at 7:39 pm

        I just went to check on my logic with my 7 year-old. I asked him:

        1) Do mushrooms have organizations?
        Answer: That’s not true!

        2) Can mushrooms hire you to do a job?
        Answer: No!

        And yet here we have full grown adults arguing for just that. It seems apparent that their operation worked.

        • Kenuvis Romero
          August 24, 2013 at 8:09 pm

          Look, Jan. I’m a long time follower, I’ve read all your articles and know full well how to use “the trivium”, as you market it. But honestly, I think you’re going overboard.

          Mushrooms do not have organizations.
          Mushrooms cannot hire you to do a job.

          Yes, I agree with you.

          The problem is you’ve gone full out on posting this as solid evidence for McKenna being part of the CIA.

          I think that your application of the trivium is deceiving you into thinking you are infallible.

          And as a result, YOU, YOURSELF, are incapable of accepting you may be wrong.

          I don’t like to sound like a twat, but really, Jan. You’ve outdone yourself.

          I really can’t take you seriously anymore.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 9:38 pm

            Please provide me some examples of how the trivium is deceiving me. You provide nothing but making a statement. I am accepting that I may be wrong, if you can provide something in a rational way, and without making unsupported statements and attacks on me in stead. I’m asking you to go through and quote it and show how it’s wrong. You haven’t. Why continually attack me rather than the work? Go and read the Deadhead article and listen to the recent John Rush interview. The work is all there. Go through the points and let’s discuss how they might be wrong. I’ve based my decisions on the research and documents, not just unsupported assumptions. So let’s just reveal them rationally.

        • Kenuvis Romero
          August 24, 2013 at 8:13 pm

          What I meant to point out is that McKenna, as hundreds of other writers/poets/whateveryouwannacall them, use this kind of language to speak of things on all levels.

          It’s absolutely clear by his tone that “They”, as he puts is sarcastically and enthusiastically, is “the mushroom”.

          I’m real sorry, but your logic on this is extremely biased and very very deeply flawed.

          Though I still wouldn’t rule out the possibility of McKenna being CIA, I’ll gladly take the usual Irvin-discrediting-without-taking-a-nap-first.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 9:40 pm

            It’s absolutely not clear that “THEY” are the mushrooms. Again, why don’t you deal with the questions I put forth to you rather than avoiding them?

            “One question. I just want to be clear: You believe that the mushrooms moved him from his position of deep background to propaganda for 15 years, where he worked to the present (1994). Do I hear you correctly?

            Nevermind this lecture is from Esalen, which ourselves and many other researchers have shown was central to MKULTRA – where he would have felt free to discuss such things. But I just want to be clear that this is actually your belief.

            1) What is a bard? “In medieval Gaelic and British culture a bard was a professional poet, employed by a patron, such as a monarch or nobleman, to commemorate the patron’s ancestors and to praise the patron’s own activities.”

            So it’s a professional poet EMPLOYED BY A PATRON, SUCH AS A MONARCH (or, let me point out, the CIA, etc), to commemorate the PATRON’S ancestors and to PRAISE the PATRON’S OWN activities. So when you use words like “bard” and poet, do you look up their definitions? A sophist is someone, such as a bard, who is trained in the MISAPPLICATION of the trivium too trick and fool people. I recommend you study the trivium before you pretend to know what it is and how it works. ”

            Please also answer each of these questions:

            1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
            2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
            3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
            4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
            5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
            6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
            7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do? – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.g8F3StuN.dpuf

        • Kenuvis Romero
          August 24, 2013 at 8:16 pm

          Also, it’s really hilarious that you think everyone debating you treats McKenna as a “God” or “Saint”.

          It seems like your only argument. That we are somehow so tied up with this dude who died so many years ago that we “can’t face the truth.”

          Really, get over yourself. I mean this seriously. Take a vacation or something.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 9:41 pm

            Again, you do see him as a god, a hero, a saint, et al. That’s why you read his own words about working for an agency in propaganda and deep background and discussing positions and organizations and you can actually think that this refers to a mushroom. Again, answer all these questions:

            1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
            2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
            3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
            4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
            5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
            6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
            7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do? – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.g8F3StuN.dpuf

          • elly dozer
            August 25, 2013 at 1:23 pm

            I think the same thing because similar to questioning the value of the KJBible, or the reality of Jesus to a dedicated Christian, for example, the TMcenna cult follower has trouble questioning WHY about his or hers attachment to the person in question, and whether or not that’s was a good choice for their safety.

            So try to entertain the idea, even if it goes against your belief. Is the only way we can learn and grow together.
            Otherwise it’s a shit show, see above.

        • Kenuvis Romero
          August 24, 2013 at 8:25 pm

          I would finish by saying that your position and attitude makes this topic impossible to debate in a serious manner.

          It may be time you adopt a new style.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 9:42 pm

            My attitude? You’re attacking me, not the work. I’m asking you to provide your citations and quotes to back this up. I’m asking you to answers these questions in a serious manner. I’m putting forth very clear statements and each one you’ve avoided. How can we debate in a serious manner if you won’t even deal with the information or questions I’ve asked you?

        • Fenris23
          August 24, 2013 at 8:30 pm

          But it isn’t NECESSARY that it be true, or that we believe, that mushrooms can have organizations or hire people for jobs for his statements to be consistent. It is only necessary that HE believe that to be possible OR for him to be using it metaphorically. Both of those are much more likely than that those statements are alluding to his having agency connections. Why? Occam’s razor. Those explanations add no unnecessary entities to our understanding while YOUR explanation requires the extra entities of Spy Agency involvement. In the absence of SOME form of corroborating evidence there is no reason to add those extra entities.

          That’s LOGIC of your trivium. Next you could work on Rhetoric because repeating the same unconvincing argument over and over again isn’t a very good use of it.

          • Kenuvis Romero
            August 24, 2013 at 8:50 pm

            This is, quite honestly, the most rational comment on this entire page.

          • elly dozer
            August 25, 2013 at 1:27 pm

            I disagree. See the Brain database, if you so dare…..

            You are correct, if you want to take the issue out of the context of all the other big names in our culture and society that play a part. Hell, you play a part……unwittingly!

          • Bernie T
            September 2, 2013 at 10:02 pm

            It seems you’re implying that McKenna possessed such advanced levels of brain power that he could, through his belief in the agency of the mushrooms alone, generate a protective forcefield that the FBI/Interpol could not penetrate while all his bills were apparently being paid due to the fortune he must have amassed while smuggling hash.
            The FBI and CIA employ people from all walks of life. The CIA, for instance has numerous journalists on their payroll. I get the feeling that too many people have a hard time accepting the reality of anything that involves the CIA, probably due to the nature of the agency’s sick agendas and the outrageous acts they perform in their implementation. Much of it is stuff a decent person would not WANT to believe.
            For someone to take up so much space going back and forth on one simple point without any references of your own while trying to discredit statements put forth by someone who actually HAS obviously put his sincere efforts into compiling, piecing together, and interpreting the evidence, is not just rude and inconsiderate to the rest of us, but at this point downright insulting.
            To repeatedly challenge Jan’s conclusions with nothing to back up your own claims that McKenna’s style of speaking and belief in the agency of the mushroom explains how he evaded Interpol and the bureau while becoming a travelling lecturer and author of psychedelic advocacy is only evidence that you seem to be missing the point entirely.

        • opiatus croaker
          August 24, 2013 at 8:40 pm

          You cetin.

          • opiatus croaker
            August 24, 2013 at 8:43 pm

            I’ve had a nice little drink and a nice little smoke and I can’t be arsed to correct my spelling, you fucking cetin!

          • Kenuvis Romero
            August 24, 2013 at 9:02 pm

            I think the word you’re looking for is “cretin”.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 24, 2013 at 9:46 pm

            Description of Ad Hominem

            Translated from Latin to English, “Ad Hominem” means “against the man” or “against the person.”

            An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of “argument” has the following form:

            Person A makes claim X.
            Person B makes an attack on person A.
            Therefore A’s claim is false.

            The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

        • elly dozer
          August 25, 2013 at 12:18 pm

          LOL!

        • Fenris23
          August 25, 2013 at 7:15 pm

          You asked Kenuvis how it was your attitude that as he said, “makes this topic impossible to debate in a serious manner.”

          THIS post of yours is the best example. And the attitude that is causing the problem? Condescension: “the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior.”

      • Bert Nowak
        August 24, 2013 at 11:35 pm

        Jan, you can’t be serious a MONARCH, as in MKULTRA MONARCH? I am sorry but he is not very pretty and I can’t imagine (thank god and I won’t try) him being a sex slave! Not even to Aldous Huxley and you may have heard the stories about the public schools in Britain and the pledges or the fraternity stuff, damn. I mean they were so young and vulnerable. Predator and prey again keeps cropping up, damn again. As in Monsanto or chemtrails. Damn that McKenna. Did he ever marry? shhsh

  11. crispin flower
    August 24, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    Lets assume you’re correct, Jan, that Terence Mckenna was a quasi secret agent. That he may have been propagandizing on every subject he spoke about from the early 70’s onwards.

    Should people altogether not use the hallucinogens/substances Terence suggested experimenting with? If no, who do you see as an alternative for sensitizing people intelligently to those substances Terence mentioned so often?

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 6:20 pm

      Joe and I are at differing opinions of this subject. See our article Manufacturing the Deadhead. Why do you need someone to follow? I don’t get it. How about using critical thinking and verifying things first before we believe them, and not following people around because they’re cult leaders. The idea is to learn to trust YOU, and not need idols.

    • elly dozer
      August 25, 2013 at 12:24 pm

      Ok, but. If I were offered LSD right now I think I’d pass. Based on what i know to be true,( granted somethings we cant really tell ) and my personal work involving Jan’s and others work on the subject.

      So. The choice is yours, always has been. It’s just hard to make the right choice, when you DONT know. The possibility of an entire generation being coerced is enough to make me want to know if its true.

      OH and to admit you bought a lie, that’s hard.

      • opiatus croaker
        August 26, 2013 at 6:23 pm

        @elly, and when you get up to speed and Jan’s theory about McKenna is undeniably revealed, right before your idiot face, to be a lie. Please return and show us how gracious you are in excepting, you are the one here who has brought the lie.

  12. Kenuvis Romero
    August 24, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    I know you can’t afford to be wrong… I mean however great GnosticMedia is, I doubt it’s buying you sports cars… and this is your livelyhood, so I get it.

    But count me out, Jan. I was a serious follower, but this post, and more importantly the way you handle people who don’t agree with you, has turned me away from my taking you as a serious researcher. It just can’t be done, and my learning is not safe with you as an author.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2013 at 9:44 pm

      I feel sorry that you need to attack me, rather than the work. Why not just answer each of these questions? Focus on answering these questions, rather than attacking me so that we can have a serious debate. Thank you.

      “I just want to be clear: You believe that the mushrooms moved him from his position of deep background to propaganda for 15 years, where he worked to the present (1994). Do I hear you correctly?

      1) What is a bard? “In medieval Gaelic and British culture a bard was a professional poet, employed by a patron, such as a monarch or nobleman, to commemorate the patron’s ancestors and to praise the patron’s own activities.”
      2) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
      3) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
      4) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
      5) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
      6) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
      7) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
      8) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

      These are simple questions. Please answer them.

      • Kenuvis Romero
        August 24, 2013 at 10:05 pm

        Sadly, Jan, you’ve gone off the boat. I can’t devote any time to your deluded thinking. It really isn’t worth it.

        • David Falao
          September 12, 2013 at 1:21 pm

          Indeed. This Jan-guy is completely bonkers. He is preaching epistemological uncertainty (which is a good thing), yet he imagines himself to be immune from it.

      • Kenuvis Romero
        August 24, 2013 at 10:08 pm

        Call it an ad hominem if you want, but you’ve really lost it.

    • elly dozer
      August 25, 2013 at 12:26 pm

      Man. Don’t follow. Walk with us.

  13. Tetractys
    August 24, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    Hmmm very interesting. Whilst i do not think that there is enough evidence presented in this article to sustain a charge that McKenna was recruited and in the employ of one of the secret service agencies during the quoted time, i think that it is entirely within reason that the presented thesis regarding McKenna’s recruitment to one of the agencies, may in fact be true.

    It shall be interesting to see if any more information presents itself that will shed some more light onto what did and did not happen.

    • elly dozer
      August 25, 2013 at 12:28 pm

      OH BROTHER u got to go into archives and cross reference this stuff! It’s so crazy it prolly true……

  14. John Richards
    August 25, 2013 at 6:02 am

    >>>>>>What is a bard? “In medieval Gaelic and British culture a bard was a professional poet, employed by a patron, such as a monarch or nobleman, to commemorate the patron’s ancestors and to praise the patron’s own activities.

    The dictionary definition of ‘bard’ says nothing about ‘being employed by a patron’

    For example, the Oxford dictionary defines a bard as : “a poet, traditionally one reciting epics and associated with a particular oral tradition”

    >>>>>Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)?

    You should consult Paul Stamets’ writing on this issue, mushrooms have a deeply concealed underground network (the mycelial infrastructure) with a dense and complex organisational structure. The mushroom body itself is only a tiny part of the whole lifeform, the mushroom just exists to spread the spores. Paul Stamets mentioned in his TED talk about how psilocybe mushrooms ‘recruit’ humans to spread their spores for them, by virtue of the fact that their psychedelic properties attract people to cultivate them in their homes. Psilocybe mushroom spores have spread throughout the world because they produce psychedelic mushrooms, they metaphorically ‘recruit’ mushroom growers by getting them to grow them and spread their spores.

    But of course to talk about mushrooms ‘recruiting’ people is ultimately anthropomorphic metaphor, ie a human concept projectively applied to an inhuman (and according to Terence, alien/extraterrestrial) organism.

    >>>>>>What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department?

    Psilocybe mushroooms are deeply engaged in public relations and propaganda, they are the holy manna from God that is disguised as an ‘illegal drug’

    • elly dozer
      August 25, 2013 at 12:32 pm

      John there’s a conspiracy to dumb us down. The dictionaries are just a current record of that editions definition, not the end all be all authoritiy. U cannot just grab the latest one and be correct.

      Ill bet 20.00 paypal credit , lets guess how many different dictionaries Jan has at his disposal ( hard or soft bound, NO Internet)

      My guess is 9.

      What say you?

      • opiatus croaker
        August 26, 2013 at 6:29 pm

        “…there’s a conspiracy to dumb us down.”

        Not shit, Sherlock. Looks to me like it’s working pretty well.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 27, 2013 at 10:30 am

      Actually, that was taken from Wiki, but here’s what the OED says:

      “1.1 An ancient Celtic order of minstrel-poets, whose primary function appears to have been to ***compose and sing (usually to the harp) verses celebrating the achievements of chiefs and warriors, and who committed to verse historical and traditional facts, religious precepts, laws, genealogies, etc***. Still the word for ‘poet’ in modern Celtic languages; and in Welsh spec. A poet or versifier who has been recognized at the Eisteddfod. ”

      Cheifs and warriors.. just replace that with Wiki’s works for Monarch.. it’s the same thing. it’s pretty clear. Don’t know how you missed that.

  15. August 25, 2013 at 8:40 am

    Take a minute to consider the grammatical, “Where?”. Jan alluded to this in an earlier comment.

    Where is McKenna when he waxes so casually about being recruited?

    He’s at Esalen, essentially at home among friends. In this setting, which Jan’s research suggests was a favorite rendezvous hub for operatives working on the hippy-New-Age project, one would expect McKenna to let his hair down. One could reasonably expect a level of candor from him that he might not reveal in a less secure or less sympathetic environment. This argues for an interpretation of his words that takes them at face value, that takes them in the matter-of-fact way in which they are delivered.

    Someone who can hold people’s attention by talking about esoteric curiosities, such as trance, in a way that nearly puts the audience into a trance, and while doing so fills people’s heads with interweavings of abstract blarney that no one can untangle, would be a useful resource to any agency studying mind control with an eye toward social engineering.

    As an effective story teller, McKenna would have been someone that the defense/intelligence community would have found useful, because that community definitely is setting out to weaponize narrative. It might not be a controversial claim, but I document that assertion here:
    http://starlarvae.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-official-story-narrating-public.html Linked references are at the end of the post.

    McKenna had something that the social engineers want, which is the ability to tell stories that people are eager to believe.

  16. Raziel
    August 25, 2013 at 10:36 am

    I must say its refreshing to find someone with the point of view I have grown accustom to in regards to Terrence Mckenna. I personally used to be a big fan of the ideas he put out about quantum physics and what not but when you use critical thinking you realize what a sham it is and how it disseminates false information to the masses.

    The problem you now face Jan is acquiring the evidences of Mckenna’s double life, which will be funny when they come out in the years to come and the followers of Mckenna finally realize they had a fast one pulled over on them.

    The problem is with this is people still view Mckenna as a smart man and blindly trust everything he says and for them that’s their fallacy they cant see past that. Hell, most people don’t even see half the lies hes said because people don’t fact check. Example. Magic Mushrooms increase visual acuity

  17. Gideon Quodnomen
    August 25, 2013 at 11:11 am

    Very interesting discovery and discussion here. After reading the article above, listening to the audio and observing the unfolding debate I for one am convinced of the possibility that one of my long-time countercultural heros was in fact a government agent. I still have great respect for the man’s mind and the ideas that he produced, but the fact is that he was primarily an entertainer, and would probably have been seen by COINTELPRO-like assets as a great means of (at least) distracting the counterculturally inclined.

    Here is my question to those of you arguing that there is insufficient evidence to assume that McKenna was an agent, and if you can answer it to my satisfaction then I will probably change my position:

    Even if we assume that McKenna’s admission was nothing more that anthropomorphic bard-speak, we are still left with one glaring incongruity. How is it that a man with a federal price on his head, who has gone to the extreme of expatriating from the country to avoid detainment, can very suddenly become the most public exponent of the virtue of illegal substances since Timothy Leary was sentenced to 95 years of solitary in Folsom with a five million dollar bail for advocating the same behaviour?

    • elly dozer
      August 25, 2013 at 1:56 pm

      Easy, because the Govt never actually does anything it has us dupes do it.

      People really need to start thinking hard about these Heads being drug runners WITH the CIA, that they are advertising to boost the sales of their product, and that that is the very disturbing thing about a partnership between The business of war (drugs, intel,mind control)and the Government.
      ( it’s called fascism, folks!)

  18. elly dozer
    August 25, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Just lissssssstin to the way Terrence talkssssssss, his hypnotic, long, drawn out, ssssssnakey kind of rhetoric GIVES ME THE CREEPS……lisssssstin to it again, you’ll hear what I’m sssssssssayin!

    • Fenris23
      August 25, 2013 at 10:45 pm

      You know, I completely agree with you on that one. So nasally. lol.

    • opiatus croaker
      August 26, 2013 at 7:08 pm

      “Terrence”? Once is fair enough but throughout this thread you have consistently failed to spell his name correctly. Just a passing knowledge of his work then, I’ll assume.

      Attacking his manner of speech, not the message?

      Appealing to Bill Cooper as an authority… on anything?

      Congratulations! You are Irvin’s exact target audience. (Donate)

      • Jan Irvin
        August 27, 2013 at 10:33 am

        Opiatus, you clearly have never even studied our work.. It’s funny how you like to conflate and confuse issues and think with fallacies to come to conclusions. But it’s apparent that you’re incapable of a rational, intelligent conversation. You have degraded every attempt at having one with you. Therefore, you’ll have to be banned. If you’re only going to name call and entire years of research out of context, then it’s clear you don’t want to contribute intelligently.

  19. elly dozer
    August 25, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Bill cooper always said ” you know your telling the truth, when you piss everyone off”. Lol

  20. Paul Short
    August 25, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Checking back to this thread and I see there are over 90 responses, yet looking at some of the other posts Jan has published recently they have far less.

    Question: Why is it that people are so adamant about trying to discredit the fact that McKenna admits he was employed by THEM in his own voice?

    To me, this falls right in line with other tactics used to suppress information online – if you can’t pull facts into the doubtful middle, vandalize them with sheer idiocy in hopes that people will just roll their eyes and click away to another site.

    This is why the trivium study is sooooo important, so that people can immediately see the subversion, lies and contradictions. Not only does it give you the skills to sift out the facts, it gives you the ability to see the agenda in the contradictions. That is often far more important than the facts themselves.

  21. eciruam
    August 26, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Thank you for this important research.

    This dovetails with research I’ve read from others and research of my own. I arrived here after doing a search prompted by my reading of Aldous Huxley’s The Perennial Philosophy which endeavors to demonstrate a common thread in mystical traditions of various cultures with heavy emphasis on the theme of oneness and ‘collective consciousness.’ Huxley’s thesis is strained and forced and his agenda obvious in my opinion and familiar from my research of esoteric Freemasonry. The book was lauded by the New York Times.

    What interests me about the hippie/drug culture as it relates to this is that LSD is often described as creating sensations and thoughts of ‘oneness with the universe’ which is clearly a meme the establishment endeavors to sell to the masses. Note well that the establishment hierarchy does not believe itself to be one with the masses, however. It seems to me that this oneness meme is a method of breaking down and softening up of the many cultures of the world and identities of individuals.

    The finale of Arthur C. Clarke’s Childhood’s End where the collective ‘oneness’ leads the masses to simply disappear is instructive. This is what the establishment string-pullers have planned for us, not themselves. I believe Clarke was speaking over the heads of most readers with that book when it was first published, but perhaps today the message can be seen more clearly.

    This ‘oneness’ that is not really universal but actually a double standard is the essence of Kabbalah which is arguably the most influential mystical current in the West.

  22. Amar
    August 26, 2013 at 11:54 am

    I wonder where his fundings came from. I mean he could not have survived of booksales in the 8 years before going public. And even in the next 15 years , how was he able to buy all those books and end up in a house on a hawaian volcano ?

    Before he was able to travel because of his hasjiessmuggling money.
    During his time as a scholar at Esalen , he probably was paid by the institute. An institute with many scret service people visiting and working there. So whats the chance of him not being working for an agency surrounded by people are working for some agency ? I think you HAD to be an asset to be able to join in at Esalen .

  23. Bert Nowak
    August 26, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    Here is one for yah.
    what is that hole between your rosy red cheeks.
    hint – anthropoids ruby red butt
    I’m jus sayin and is that a grin behind your hand or are you gripping some protein.

    back to McKenna. Esalen was a hangout and I think its pretty funny. How long does it take to fry an egg? Not long when you turn on the heat and as I recall it’s been about a year with Jan. I’ll presume one thing with an eye to the future. TK is TKO’d. What’s important? He did his job and kept a ton or 2 of folks out in the OZONE but now that it’s thinning they’ll get back down to earth just in time for the NSA (protectors of the government; your not in that club GC says) and Global Dimming which has already begun.
    thanks for your work Jan

  24. gunk
    August 26, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Strange that Terence would admit to a crowd that he is a spy and informant? No cognitive dissonance there in Jan’s argument? If he is trying to spread irrationality, it is strange how after the part Jan picks out he goes on to say he is often full of malarky and that he wants people to participate in SCIENCE with him as a research team, that he should not be believed automatically about his novelty theory.. He sure is one bungling CIA agent giving up his cover, then oooh what does he do? He teaches the audience about the ad hominem fallacy, boy thats not a good way to spread irrationality!?

    As for your “arguments”

    1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?

    It is obviously a figure of speech he is using, as he started his response by saying he is the alien ambassador. You see Jan, people who talk like humans have this thing called a sense of humor, sometimes they don’t speak in ways that are meant to be taken literally. So that in this satirical response the mushroom spirits are working together to enlighten humanity. When Terence was working deep background he is joking that he sold psychedelics and weed, thus the less said the better, after all he doesnt want to incriminate himself. Duh! As for being public relations, he is an advocate of shamanism, thus he is pro mushroom spirit and feels compelled to get us to try and contact them.

    2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?

    This question is based on the assumption that he is lying, you already made up your mind and are using confirmation bias to cherry pick and twist information. Mushroom Spirits want him as public relations to try and save the planet from ecological devastation, and to enlighten humanity, as Terence has always claimed. They need this because westerners are dreadfully ignorant of how to use psychedelics and because they are currently illegal, thus need human advocacy on their behalf.

    3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?

    He never said the mushrooms told him to say this you are just making that up, again he was selling illegal substances, of course he doesnt want to talk about that.

    4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?

    Again a figure of speech, something someone with a sense of humor would understand, but something which makes no sense for a undercover agent to say to an audience.

    5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)

    Selling mushrooms and hash makes people money.

    6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?

    The answer to the question of how his problem with the law was never answered and you have committed a non sequitor based on pure speculation.

    7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do? – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.yJO7Va4l.dpuf

    Same answer as above, but while being an informant is one possible answer it would be idiotic to admit this to the audience and is not proof in itself. It is at best circumstantial evidence.

    You say we must belief in magical mushroom spirits to believe him, but this is not true, we only have to believe Terence believes in mushroom spirits, whether or not they exist has no bearing on anything to do with what you have brought up. Terence definitely could of had visions of mushroom spirits because I have, long before I ever heard of Terence Mckenna, same as natives for thousands of years. Your argument here is a red herring.

    You go on to talk about how your seven year old knows that mushrooms dont have organizations when you gave him an out of context and twisted loaded question. This is a straw man argument and is intended as an ad hominem, saying that a seven year old is smarter than anyone who disagrees with you.

    I could go on but you just ignore any points that people make against you and get hysterical and even threaten violence on some people, or block them. I am not saying this because I am huge fan of Mckenna, or a new ager, I am a punk and we have been saying hippies are full of shit for over 30 years, I am saying it because you too are full of shit Jan. Ironically I can see this better because I have learned some logic due to your suggestions, you’re arguments are rife with cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, you use ad hominems and all the rest. You made up your mind that new agers are irrational, then your massive ego uses faulty logic to pick out information from your feeble grammar to support your claims before you have all the info.

    I agree with you that Wasson was crooked but you make soooo many huge leaps of logic, so many stupid points I find it hard to believe you actually studied the trivium. I remember you saying you had a friend stop being friends with you because you are too “negative” and your massive ego took this to mean you are too rational and smart, (Im guessing it was Andrew Rutajit?) but the truth is he was simply to nice to tell you the truth strait out, you are an arrogant prick and thats why he doesnt want to be friends with you. My guess is you are emotionally hurt yet so unwilling to face up to your own short comings that you have taken upon yourself to get revenge on all those hippies who rejected you, justifying it to yourself as a quest to spread rationality. (Something tells me your love life has suffered from such arrogance as well.)

    I say this out of love Jan, you are clearly in a bad way emotionally and it is making you incredibly bias and delusional rationally. My suggestion is for you to take a large dose of mushrooms, (given the size of your ego its going to take at least 10 grams) and then in silent darkness pray, pray for the mushroom spirits to heal you, to show you the truth. You don’t have to believe in it before hand, but sincerely try to find the truth, do an experiment, see if they come to you tell them honestly, I dont know if you are real but if you are please reveal yourself to me, show me the error of my ways, and when they do ask them to heal your heart.

    Just because people disagree with you does not mean they are mind controlled or stupid, so stop acting like it, you are driving away your supporters.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 26, 2013 at 8:34 pm

      I note that without any evidence what so every, you dismiss his own words and call it all a figure of speech.

      Strange that Terence would admit to a crowd that he is a spy and informant? No cognitive dissonance there in Jan’s argument? If he is trying to spread irrationality, it is strange how after the part Jan picks out he goes on to say he is often full of malarky and that he wants people to participate in SCIENCE with him as a research team, that he should not be believed automatically about his novelty theory.. He sure is one bungling CIA agent giving up his cover, then oooh what does he do? He teaches the audience about the ad hominem fallacy, boy thats not a good way to spread irrationality!?

      Had you paid attention to the notes and posts here, you’d have seen that this lecture was given at Esalen, a well proved MKULTRA headquarters, and therefore he was with friends… no cognitive dissonance at all.. Actually, there are very many researchers on MKULTRA out there who have discussed Esalen’s heavy involvement. Please look at and study everything before leaping to false conclusions in order to attack the author.

      The problem that “Gunk” fails to understand is that these are McKenna’s own words, and gunk actually has to ignore them and then make up and fill in the rest.

      As for your “arguments”

      1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?

      It is obviously a figure of speech he is using, as he started his response by saying he is the alien ambassador. You see Jan, people who talk like humans have this thing called a sense of humor, sometimes they don’t speak in ways that are meant to be taken literally. So that in this satirical response the mushroom spirits are working together to enlighten humanity. When Terence was working deep background he is joking that he sold psychedelics and weed, thus the less said the better, after all he doesnt want to incriminate himself. Duh! As for being public relations, he is an advocate of shamanism, thus he is pro mushroom spirit and feels compelled to get us to try and contact them.

      Actually, it’s not a figure of speech. He’s clear that hew as being chased by the FBI and was out of money and took a job in background and public relations. It’s very wishful thinking to think that’s it’s all satiricle, when the whole op at Esalen is MKULTRA. But he’s at Esalen, so why would he be afraid to incriminate himself there? That’s absurd. They’ve put out thousands of hours of this type of material.

      2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?

      This question is based on the assumption that he is lying, you already made up your mind and are using confirmation bias to cherry pick and twist information. Mushroom Spirits want him as public relations to try and save the planet from ecological devastation, and to enlighten humanity, as Terence has always claimed. They need this because westerners are dreadfully ignorant of how to use psychedelics and because they are currently illegal, thus need human advocacy on their behalf.

      I’m not basing any assumption that he’s lying. I’m taking his words for what he’s saying. That he worked in public relations for 15 years. You are assuming that he’s lying by saying it’s all a figure of speech while ignoring his own words.

      3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?

      He never said the mushrooms told him to say this you are just making that up, again he was selling illegal substances, of course he doesnt want to talk about that.

      This was a QUESTION: Would the MUSHROOMS OR is that something an agency would do? Obviously he wouldn’t have already started lecturing about psychedelics if the less said the better. It makes no sense and is a blatant contradiction and wishful thinking your part. Obviously the correct answer was that it’s something an agency would do.

      4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?

      Again a figure of speech, something someone with a sense of humor would understand, but something which makes no sense for a undercover agent to say to an audience.

      Based on what is it a figure of speech? he’s very clear that he worked in deep background and then was moved to public relations where he’d been for 15 years. Hardly sounds at all like a figure of speech. But you have no evidence that it is a figure of speech and his own words are very clear.

      5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)

      Selling mushrooms and hash makes people money.

      Notice how he’s already in trouble for smuggling… that’s why it was noted above. That’s why he took a position in public relations for 15 years… to pay the bills… rather than ignore his own words, you make up shit that he didn’t say. He clearly worked in deep background and after, public relations for 15 years. Why would he work in public relations as a smuggler? Again, your fallacious arguments are confusing you. You’re thinking with fallacies and having to make up words that are not written any place.

      6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?

      The answer to the question of how his problem with the law was never answered and you have committed a non sequitor based on pure speculation.

      Your answer is known as begging the question, or circular reasoning… you’re trying to answer the question with the question itself. Obviously by ignoring a logical progession, that he’s in trouble and running from the law, from which no conclusion is ever mentioned in his book, clearly NOT a non-sequitur, but an easily followable transition of events… he’s being chased, he’s on the run, he’s out of money, they catch him and offer him a job, which he even addmitted. You don’t need this dizzying pretzel logic to fool yourself. Obviously if he’s offered a job the FBI would have cleared their own records of him. It’s not magic or anything.

      7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do? – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent#sthash.yJO7Va4l.dpuf

      Same answer as above, but while being an informant is one possible answer it would be idiotic to admit this to the audience and is not proof in itself. It is at best circumstantial evidence.

      Again, you entirely ignored where he was presenting… Esalen… where we, and many others, have covered extensively was related to MKULTRA. Obviously if he’s giving a lecture to his own peers he’d have no fear of your idiotic statement and omission of the facts.

      You say we must belief in magical mushroom spirits to believe him, but this is not true, we only have to believe Terence believes in mushroom spirits, whether or not they exist has no bearing on anything to do with what you have brought up. Terence definitely could of had visions of mushroom spirits because I have, long before I ever heard of Terence Mckenna, same as natives for thousands of years. Your argument here is a red herring.

      except for the fact that he also admits that he works as an agent in PUBLIC RELATIONS which means that he’s a paid liar. Rather than saying god told him to do it, just look at the facts. He’s just admitted that he works in PR, a job that’s designed to fool the dumb dumbs into believing “we only have to believe Terence believes in mushroom spirits,” – spoken like a true Christian… You just have to believe in Jesus Christ the spirit of god! Actually, Terence admitted that after a bad trip in 1989 that he never did them again.

      You go on to talk about how your seven year old knows that mushrooms dont have organizations when you gave him an out of context and twisted loaded question. This is a straw man argument and is intended as an ad hominem, saying that a seven year old is smarter than anyone who disagrees with you.

      No, it’s an example of how befuddled most of the “adults” here are, who can’t think clearly and leap to all sorts of fanciful explanations to explain away someone’s own words.

      I could go on but you just ignore any points that people make against you and get hysterical and even threaten violence on some people, or block them. I am not saying this because I am huge fan of Mckenna, or a new ager, I am a punk and we have been saying hippies are full of shit for over 30 years, I am saying it because you too are full of shit Jan. Ironically I can see this better because I have learned some logic due to your suggestions, you’re arguments are rife with cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, you use ad hominems and all the rest. You made up your mind that new agers are irrational, then your massive ego uses faulty logic to pick out information from your feeble grammar to support your claims before you have all the info.

      Really? Where? That’s quite a statement, concidering you and everyone else here has come to attack me and not the other way around. And after all, it is my forum and website and I can block people who name call. But actually, since your the first to even try to present any sort of rebuttal, I’ve broken down each one of your points, so you’ve no need to leap to false conclusions or project on others. But ironically, you’re not applying any logic here and you’re falling to recognize that CONTRADICTIONS are lies and that you can’t just go and make up shit where it isn’t said in order to make your arguments. Logic is not about making up sophist shit. Logic deals with each statement actually said… going word by word, point by point… so notice how through all of this you AVOIDED dealing with Terence’s actual words? This truth of your argument is revealed. You avoided the primary words presented, dismissed them in one swoop, without evidence and claimed “It’s a figure of speech”. .. why would he use PR and background and a job with the Feds as a figure of speech? You don’t think that a PR man could come up with a better figure of speech, unless he was comfortable speaking in front of his own as we said?

      I agree with you that Wasson was crooked but you make soooo many huge leaps of logic, so many stupid points I find it hard to believe you actually studied the trivium. I remember you saying you had a friend stop being friends with you because you are too “negative” and your massive ego took this to mean you are too rational and smart, (Im guessing it was Andrew Rutajit?) but the truth is he was simply to nice to tell you the truth strait out, you are an arrogant prick and thats why he doesnt want to be friends with you. My guess is you are emotionally hurt yet so unwilling to face up to your own short comings that you have taken upon yourself to get revenge on all those hippies who rejected you, justifying it to yourself as a quest to spread rationality. (Something tells me your love life has suffered from such arrogance as well.)

      No, no leaps of logic, though I did just point out yours. Notice how you have to attack them as ‘stupid’ all the while still avoiding McKenna’s own words and twisting them to fit your own belief system? Look, I get it. It’s your religion and he’s your saint. You’re acting as any good religious Zealot would. It’s perfectly understandable in your condition.

      I say this out of love Jan, you are clearly in a bad way emotionally and it is making you incredibly bias and delusional rationally. My suggestion is for you to take a large dose of mushrooms, (given the size of your ego its going to take at least 10 grams) and then in silent darkness pray, pray for the mushroom spirits to heal you, to show you the truth. You don’t have to believe in it before hand, but sincerely try to find the truth, do an experiment, see if they come to you tell them honestly, I dont know if you are real but if you are please reveal yourself to me, show me the error of my ways, and when they do ask them to heal your heart.

      Just because people disagree with you does not mean they are mind controlled or stupid, so stop acting like it, you are driving away your supporters.

      Had you paid attention to the notes and posts here, you’d have seen that this lecture was given at Esalen, a well proved MKULTRA headquarters, and therefore he was with friends… no cognitive dissonance at all..

      No, that’s actually not true. You said it out of spite because your heroes are being crushed and you feel threatened by it rather than just letting go… so you spun all of this stuff from words that weren’t even written by him. But notice how you turn your entire argument, just like these others, into an attack on me, all the while calling me emotional, delusional? Why is that? I’ve actually taken mushrooms well over 600 times, far more than McKenna or you. So thanks for the advice, but maybe you should study your advice yourself and your need for these ad hominem and circumstantial ad hominem attacks on me. Didn’t you just claim to have studied logic? Well then, why attack with this sort of thing rather than sticking to the facts as I have? It’s interesting, again, your projections on to me. As if I was going to your website, attacking you emotionally and calling you names. LOL.

      No, I never once claimed that people who disagree are mind controlled or stupid. That’s a straw man, a fallacy, and again, you claim to know logic. People who are mind controlled are ones who refuse to go over the actual words said, point by point, react emotionally to their religious idots, and then name call at others for daring to point that out, and even go so far as to travel to them to insult them.

      But again, none of your points above stand up to any logic. You’ve allowed your fallacies and the contradictions in your own mind to fool you and to omit Terence’s own words to build this fanciful argument of yours, where as mine is entirely based, 100%, on things he said and the events surrounding the situation and simple logical deduction that anyone can follow of they chose not to fool themselves with fallacies and name calling at others in substitution of an actual argument.

      in love and gratitute,
      J

      • gunk
        August 26, 2013 at 9:10 pm

        Wow you totally ignored my arguments and just repeated the same old fallacious arguments.
        You base the premise of this argument on very questionable and faulty evidence then use it to justify new fallacious arguments.. Pointing to other error ridden evidence is not evidence, its like referencing yourself as a source, its your own circular logic. You also ignored how he was teaching logic. So what if he is at Esalen, he released the tapes, they got out to people, its not like its some secret MK ULTRA meeting.

        You said he is my religious idol when I specifically said I am not a fan of Mckenna,if he is brainwashing people and I am a zealot you are insinuating I am brainwashed so you contradicted yourself.

        He never said one way or other how the problem with the law was resolved, you just assume its because he made a deal because you are incapable of thinking beyond the literal.
        Can I prove it was a figure of speech? Well you notice how people were laughing? How his tone is obviously joking? If you are determined to twist things to fit your ideas you can make yourself believe whatever you want, as you Jan clearly do, everyone does, the difference is some people have the humility to admit they don’t know everything and refrain from slandering people based on mere opinion. You cant prove it isnt a figure of speech and this is precisely the problem with a purely logical approach, words need interpretation, they are subjective, what is and isnt a fallacy is often an opinion, your assumption of being objective is actually a sign of your bias.

        You “rebuttal” was wrong in so many ways I just dont have time to argue with you, you are clearly trying to set yourself up as some kind of crusader, my guess is you are trying to set up your own objectivist materialist cult. Obviously you will just go in to denial whenever someone points out the flaws in your argument, then just reference old flawed information, throw in a few arguments blah blah you are fallacious study my work more.. blah blah blah I never make leaps in logic, I am infallible.

        You can point out the “flaws” in this posts arguments if you want, it wasnt intended as a purely rational argument because you have so little facts to actually debate about, its all your speculations built in to a house of cards.

        One thing you fail to grasp is that just because someone contradicts themselves, or has bad logic does not make them a liar as you claim, it makes them incorrect, there’s a difference.

        By the way, saying you took mushrooms 600 times is an appeal to authority.. but then you said before you took them just over 200 times, you keep changing the amounts you have taken them, over and over I notice this,you tried to educate people about rationality just like Terence! Maybe you are CIA Jan! dun dun dun!

        • Jan Irvin
          August 27, 2013 at 10:09 am

          “He never said one way or other how the problem with the law was resolved, you just assume its because he made a deal because
          I assume he made a deal because his own words say he made a deal:

          “I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said” “ith a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“ –
          “And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.”

          I note that you’re not quoting a thing about the FBI chase or what he said, but attacking me instead.

          They’re laughing because he made a joke about being an “alien ambassador” – but you confuse this with his clear statement of being an agent, and if he’s with other agents, and took a deal then that would be justification for their laughter, wouldn’t it? But why ignore all the research on there on Esalen being tied to MKULTRA?

          “You “rebuttal” was wrong in so many ways I just dont have time to argue with you, ”

          Yes, that’s always the case.. It’s wrong because you say so… but with no evidence and an excuse.

          And then attack the author: “you are clearly trying to set yourself up as some kind of crusader,”

          No, not at all. I’m just publishing the research. You’re the one coming here. I’m not out crusading. Nice ad hominem though. But irrelevant.

          “You can point out the “flaws” in this posts arguments if you want, it wasnt intended as a purely rational argument because you have so little facts to actually debate about, its all your speculations built in to a house of cards. ”

          I provided the quotes, you’re not addressing them. You’re attacking me like each of the others, and then when your argument is shown as entirely faulty, it’s more attacking me. But your argument wasn’t rational at all, as I already pointed out.

          The quote he’s not contradicting himself, he’s actually finishing the above continuation of what happened in his FBI / Interpol chase, otherwise he’d not mention it at all. There’s actually no contradiction there. The only contradiction is your appeal everything but his own words.

          And saying I did mushrooms 600 times wasn’t an appeal to authority, it was in answer to all your claims that I have no idea what the experience is about. That’s why you dont’ quote me, so you can take my words out of context.

          Try not to confuse difference substances… 200 times was during high school and college, not my entire life. Try to read clearly. I haven’t changed the times I’ve taken them at all, you just have an issue with chronology and paying attention to what was said about what times and what substances: by the end of college about 200 times… by my mid to late 30s, easily 600+ and that’s just mushrooms. But all substances total – easily over 1000. No contradictions at all, just in your ability to gather information and review it rationally.

          I’ve blocked you from further posts.

          • Fenris23
            August 28, 2013 at 12:12 pm

            Are you going to block everyone who disagrees with you? Am I next?

          • Jan Irvin
            August 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm

            Just those who name call and don’t comment on the actual material.

          • Amar
            August 29, 2013 at 3:57 pm

            some questions came up in my mind:

            The other agents or people in the ”know” might indeed be laughing when he mentioned ”alien ambassador” because they all knew that his wild trip-reports with basketball-dribbling-dmt-aliens were a bunch of bullshit concocted up for him to impress and grab attention.

            So they laugh at the inside joke, and then he turns back to reality in the rest of his narrative.

            I wonder if the public release of this fragment was a mistake and it was meant for the inside crowd.
            An agent would not be allowed to disclose his cover. Did his handler not notice?

  25. Brian
    August 27, 2013 at 5:54 am

    Gunk pwning in here. Spot on about the Rutajit comments. I used to laugh when Jan used to go on about “ego-death”, while having his massive ego on constant display. Definitely think he’s projecting in here when he speaks repeatedly about “low self esteem”.

    And for the record, I think this is far from a smoking gun and the Alien Ambassador context leads me to believe he is speaking metaphorically, but I would be happy to find out TM was an agent/informant working with The Man… fits my perspective on the world just fine.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 27, 2013 at 10:16 am

      Hardly… Gunk has a problem like most people here of simply reading Terence’s own words… they have to create mystical jargon to avoid what he himself is saying and how it ties directly to his own trouble with the law. There’s no contradictions there unless you buy a PR mans rhetoric about him being an alien ambassador, but then you’d have to prove aliens exist and have organiations and that he worked in PR for them for 15 years. It’s really just common sense.

      Actually, it was Michael Hoffman who went on about ego death and I never really agreed with this theory. He started a little cult from that.

      But I find in interesting that you, like the others, focus your attack on me instead of just quoting the article. Rutajit, that’s hilarious. I won’t even begin to tell you the real history behind that. Talk to Bouncing Bear.

      Look at this own words.. .the only metaphore was his joke about aliens.. the rest is just his simple explanation of how he got the job for the CIA / FBI in PR… Why does everyone avoid what he actually said?

      “And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.”

      So funny.

      I provide direct quotes of his own words, and then all of you ignore them and claim I’m the one misquoting him. Hardly. Just read all of it through, read his background in the database, and study the articles we’ve published. It’s very clearly laid out. You don’t have to run around protecting your heroes and attacking the authors.

      Be well, Brian.

  26. Brian
    August 27, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    “You don’t have to run around protecting your heroes and attacking the authors. ”

    Ad Hom son… I think TM is an effeminate fag personally. I’m only aware of his work thanks to you. Actually, if anyone is my hero in this scenario, it’s you Jan. Huge fan of the info so I suffer through your prickish and annoying personality. Your interpersonal skills are shitty. You seem to project a lot and are often doing what you accuse others of doing.
    This is not an attack on you though, it’s just an observation from my 5 senses. I’d provide point by point examples, but both our time is more valuable than that.
    Love the work, keep it up.

  27. Jan Irvin
    August 27, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Regarding McKenna:

    Even when you lay out his own words of the events with the FBI and Interpol chase, their first reaction is always to reach for some mystical BS explanation instead of taking the words for exactly what they mean… no need to twist them, just take them for what they actually say.

    The general argument is is basically this:
    We have to accept McKenna’s words as a figure of speech or as allegory, because to do otherwise, to take his words for what they mean by definition, to take him seriously, would mean that he’s an agent. And since we can’t allow that possibility, it’s got to be allegory and therefore Jan is somehow crazy. It’s a lot of back-flipping pretzel logic.

    If you research his background (see the brain database) and the story line of the FBI chase, it all fits into place without speculating that his words don’t mean what he says.

    The others have to entirely throw out his own words and without justification to do so, and claim that it’s all allegory. But he doesn’t say “well let me give you an allegory or a figure of speech”… but they want more evidence of his words, which I’m taking at face value, while they go around making up all of the speculation that it’s a figure of speech and allegory – claiming that his words don’t mean what he said, and that mushrooms have positions and PR, etc… it’s asinine.

    They base this on PURE assumption that McKenna is actually lying and that his words don’t mean exactly what he says they do…

    I have no reason not to believe him in this case and cited his book. This lecture is also at Esalen, where much of the MKULTRA research went on.

    Isn’t it irony that his own fans don’t believe him and are arguing that he’s lying? LOL.
    When we add 1 + 1 to get 2, we don’t have to make up things that weren’t said and that isn’t already in the story line. There’s a chase, he’s running, he gets caught. They say he has a mouth and offer him a job as an agent and in PR where he works to pay the bills for 15 years… It’s really quite simple…

    It’s perfectly clear what he meant. .. he tells you that he worked in PR for 15 years and as an agent in a deep-background position of which “the lesser said the better”… he’s speaking in front of a room full of agents at Esalen.. .we can see his story line about the chase.. . Advance 15 years later and he’s telling you what happened.

    It’s like this: 1 + 1 = 2.

  28. Bert Nowak
    August 27, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    MY observations?
    Jan you steel yourself on the repartie and many appreciate it for what it’s worth. It may feel a bit like parachute jumping but maybe less than hang gliding yet the foil is put to work with reason. You must remember that even though you carry the argument to win the day, it requires a side step before you parry and thrust to keep what is obviously the game of life up close and personal. You need to smell them. (invite them in)
    Let them get close with no fear. Our enemies (if honour exists) are our dearest allies.

  29. Bernie T
    August 28, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Jan, I think what’s happening here is some kind of mental detoxification process.
    Terence McKenna obviously had a talent for communicating his thoughts on topics with an enormous potential for stirring up controversy. Some people allowed his words to establish settlements within the borders of their minds. These ideas then gave birth to other ideas through what could be appropriately described as psychic rape. To take the metaphor a step further: psychostatutory rape of a mind not yet adequately trivium-fortified. Of course there are and will always be a population of mental sluts who welcome a good mindfuck.
    Psychedelics, like steaknives are useful to those who know how to safely use them. For those who do not they can be quite dangerous.
    How pertinent this is using the trivium.

  30. Robert Christy
    September 1, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Well, now I didn’t get through this whole thread it got a little redundant….but did anyone not get that he NEVER got caught???
    How did he never get caught by the FBI or INTERPOL, did the mushrooms get him out of that jam or did those agencies just decide to let it go, did his file fall behind a desk and then he became the psychedelic guru he became and by that time those agencies had forgotten all about TM the smuggler???

    Create laws, bustem and givem a deal..jail or work with us?

    simple really!

    • Frank Shortt
      September 1, 2013 at 1:05 pm

      hehe – bureaucracy might be the answer :)

      but when he became TM the guru – that would have brought renewed interest in his past…. would it not – and finding he was wanted for smuggling would have put him in jail once he did go public… no?

      kindly

      f

  31. Frank Shortt
    September 1, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Dear Jan et al.

    Thank you kindly for fresh input.
    I have no problem seeing McKenna as a “agent” – at the same time I also see the McKenna-mythos (mushroom-cult) logic holding up in its own interpretation model – which is why I think there has been a lot of mis-communication in this thread, as both epistemological and and ontological foundations are disconnected.

    Personally, from my knowledge of McKenna’s work, it is possible that the “mushroom-mythos” is a possible gimmick that is partially based on experiences and on historical portraits of such experiences – Just look at Graham Hancock, he also talks of entities and organisation within this experience as separate from us… etc. etc.
    Both intellectuals, they both questioned everything, and as Hancock spells out (and I am sure a lot of us who have explored these realms have come across) whether this is truly an “other” intelligence, or if it is created by the mind – it is an area worthy of serious study….
    Hence, the so-called “metaphors” could also be considered “semi or quasi metaphorical” meaning that it both has a metaphorical relation and an experiential relation based on the perceptions of reality – or simply holding a dual meaning/reality.

    The fact, as Jan points out quite well in the article and follow-up answers, that McKenna might have been a recruited “agent” of a abc-organisation, does not take away from his fundamental work…. I do recognise that it does put a lot if not all his work in question in terms of angle – but still, his work is still relevant, he does have a deep thought pattern that will re-fresh you.

    I know if I were in his shoes, I would welcome a “get-out-of-jail 4 free” card, and even better to keep following my passion and intellectual interest.

    It makes me more interested in the person, if he did end up working for “the state”, it would be interesting to study the potential for subversion of the “employers” message….

    just some thoughts – keep up the good work.

    kindly

    f

  32. Mitchell Dow
    September 1, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Hi Jan, I’ve been reading this article and have been very fascinated by both sides of this argumentative discussion. I
    At this point have no claims on how to look at the evidence at hand, but due to my own curiosity I have come here to ask: have you had a psychedelic experience? If so, would you be willing to elaborate on your thoughts and feelings of it? If not, could you still give your opinion on them as a general topic of psychological influence? I understand that this may be personal information and I understand that legal issues may constrict our abilities to elaborate in this deeply, but it has come to my understanding that phenomenologically speaking, there is a distinction between people who have experimented with these compounds and people who haven’t, which interpretively makes a major difference in how people take this topic into discussion. If you have any room to make any statement in light of the questions I have proposed, it would be much appreciated. Thank you!

    • September 1, 2013 at 8:57 pm

      Thanks, I think this is already discussed in the thread here. It’s also covered very extensively on the show since the beginning.

      Thanks for your interest.

  33. greg bell
    September 4, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Jan – can I ask you to speculate a bit? So, they engaged in skilful marketing and PR in order to manufacturer dead heads. Was the plan for mind-control control (like ongoing control) or just making people stupid?

    And do you think they succeeded?

  34. Oliver Freedman
    September 5, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    Jan let me explain something to you.

    “They”, mushrooms, God, Fate, the System, the Tao, the Matrix. These are all METAPHORS for the same thing. The descriptions people ascribe to them are ANALOGOUS.

    What is that thing then? Ask yourself.

    • September 5, 2013 at 12:41 pm

      Hilarious! Did you read it? I noted the absurdity of this argument above. Have you even read the thread? This ridiculous argument has been covered ad infinitum. He even calls himself a slacker, and admits it beats “honest work” – which is exactly what working for the agency is.

      Where does he say it’s a metaphor? Why would the metaphor fit perfectly as the conclusion of this FBI / Interpol chase? Do you understand the concept of cognitive dissonance?

      I really understand you. I was there once. I though McKenna was the real deal once too. But you need to use some common sense and critical thinking – what McKenna was against. I know you want to use fallacies to dismiss his own words, and, ironically, it’s YOU who is arguing that he’s lying… with no evidence or justification for doing so, other than your religious beliefs and your not wanting to look at the facts.

      Try to read this again. I’ve cut out his distracting sophism so that you can stay focused:

      True Hallucinations, p. 22ff:
      Late in August of 1969 fate turned me from hash smuggler to fugitive when one of my Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U.S. Customs. I went underground and wandered throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, viewing ruins in the former and collecting butterflies in the later. Then came my time in Japan. Whether this gave me an edge on the others in experience seemed unlikely.

      True Hallucinations page 166:
      This decision to depart California (Henk:and return to the Amazon) was hailed by my circle in Berkeley. Concern for my mental state was rife among my friends, and rumor had reached us that the FBI was aware that I was somewhere back inside the country and had begun looking for me. The Bombay-to-Aspen hashish blues were catching up with me. It was, as they say, time to make a move.

      True Hallucinations pg. 179
      In February of 1970, a year before I arrived at La Chorrera, my fugitive wanderings had taken me to the island of Timor in Eastern Indonesia. Under indictment in the States for the heinous crime of importing hashish, I traveled and lived under the dramatic assumption that international police agencies were combing the globe looking for me. My cover, that of a graduate student in entomology doing field work for a degree—a butterfly collector—had worked well over the previous six months

      True Hallucinations pg. 186
      I swallowed hard. He didn’t look like the sort of person who would appreciate my stories of fighting the police at the Berkeley barricades shoulder-to-shoulder with affinity groups like the Persian Fuckers and the Acid Anarchists. Nor did my participation in the Human Be-In or the rolling orgies of the Summer of Love in the Haight-Ashbury seem appropriate to mention. And my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.
      I decided to go with the usual half-truth reserved for straight people. “I am an art historian turned biologist. I went to Nepal to study Tibetan but found that I am no linguist when it comes to Asian languages. I have returned to biology, my first love. Specifically, I am an entomologist.
      I am collecting butterflies here in Indonesia retracing the route of Alfred Russell Wallace. Wallace was the real discoverer of the theory of natural selection, but Darwin got all the credit. I identify with his underdog status. Wallace was shafted by Victorian science because he was of the wrong class and didn’t know how to play politics the way Darwin did. Wallace explored the Amazon Basin as well and if all goes well, I hope to travel and collect there too. Eventually I will write a monograph on speciation among the butterflies of Amazonas and Eastern Indonesia, which will get me a degree. Then, who knows. Teaching perhaps. Hard to say.

      [Henk] He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol. He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]

      Note he fled to avoid capture by Interpol but then after a time he casually returns to Berkeley?
      First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think.
      Attempts to get an answer from Terence’s brother, Dennis, regarding the above episode have failed. It seems they want us to believe that Terence just went from being wanted by Interpol and the FBI to just casually lecturing about psychedelics. What happened in the interim? Someone must know the answer.”

      We finally have the conclusion to what happened to Terence after the FBI had caught him:

      Terence McKenna:
      I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

      Now to your laughable comments about a metaphor, as was already posted above:

      1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
      2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
      3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
      4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
      5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
      6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
      7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

      • David Falao
        September 11, 2013 at 3:24 pm

        If you have a basic understanding of the concept of “sarcasm”, it should be blatantly obvious that McKenna is just playing on the “alien ambassador”-theme he brought up..

        It’s a joke. People who get it are laughing in the background. By “they”, he means “the logos”, “the other”, “the mushroom spirit” etc, and not a literal, human organization..
        “First I did some background work” (he tripped his brains out and communed with the logos)
        “Then they put me in public relations” (he started talking about his trips and theories)

        1.) Is Terence a fan of irony and metaphors? Has he not been referring to “the logos” as a community/quasi-organisation?
        2.) The mushroom spirit would like advocates of our symbiosis so we could help eachother colonize the galaxy. The mushroom has the blueprints, we have the tools.
        3.) Intense tripping can be intensily bizarre and exhausting, and often impossible to formulate.
        4.) Still playing on the same metaphor.. An “alien ambassador” is sort of a position, is it not?
        5.) This is actually not so easily refuted. I have no idea how he made the money, but once his books took off, it probably saved his income. Remember he still was growing mushrooms, and developing growing techniques.. He wrote “the magic mushroom growers guide” after the Amazon.. I personally think he just continued dealing. But this is very anecdotal and not sufficient counter-“evidence”.
        6.) Same as above, that is actually pretty strange, how he got out of his legal troubles.
        7.) Same as above.

        I still think just hearing his presence is evidence enough of his genuine interest for our species, and not some generic intelligence agency’s arbitrary agendas.. His talks are just too thorough and full of actually, objectively meaningful information to be anything other than what they are; very intriguing ideas relatable to all of our species.

        • September 11, 2013 at 4:44 pm

          David, please see the trivium study section to the left about critical thinking and logical fallacies. Thanks. Oh, by the way, you didn’t answer my questions. You created straw mans about my questions, and you ignored his chase by the FBI, his being out of money, et al. I get he’s your religious hero, but think critically without making up words that aren’t there. He’s a propaganda expert, as he just admitted. But if you don’t know the logical fallacies, you’ll be left to outrageous and fallacious statements as your three posts. Read through the entire thing, study the other articles and the database and use some critical thinking, without acting like a religious Zeolot appealing to your god.

          You’re using the fallacy of “appealing to the mushroom god” to do your thinking for you. Nevermind that all of these guys, including Gordon Wasson, were propaganda experts. But learn the logical fallacies in the trivium section so that you learn to filter them from your own thoughts. Fallacy comes from the word fallare – to deceive or to lie. It’s how others lie to us, and how we lie to ourselves. You ignore McKenna’s own words and then dream up a fanciful religion to avoid them.

          1) Terence makes no claim that it’s a metaphor. This story is an exact continuation from his FBI chase and his capture. He is known as a bard which is a hired poet who preaches what the King wants.
          2) Is it a spirit, or voices, or what? But you’re not thinking on a proved premise and you’re arguing form magical voices. This is the epitome of schizophrenia.
          3) You’re acting as if I haven’t done mushrooms many hundreds of times, written books on them, and studied them for more than 20 years. I understand you and I get your religion. However, you’ve never considered how your fallacious thinking causes you to be controlled.
          4) Alien ambassador is clearly the joke and bears nothing on the following paragraph that is CLEARLY about the FBI chase and not unproved aliens.
          5) Being that you’re not using any critical thinking, and are entirely ignoring the FBI/Interpol chase, you’re committing the fallacies of omission. Why would you ignore the chase in your “refutation”? That’s entirely dishonest to ignore his own words and then appeal to your own make believe. He further admitted that after a bad trip in 1989 that he’d never done them again. Try to look at all of the research and and the agenda that we have been revealing. it’s very clear that you’ve studied nothing we’ve ever put out on the subject. You remind me of the religious types: “Don’t confuse me with facts, I’ve already made up my mind”. You must learn to THINK, David. Rather than being fooled by someone who admits that he’s a propagandist – which is someone who uses words to FOOL people realize that HE IS A PROPAGANDIST. Rather than arguing that he’s lying, look at all of HIS OWN QUOTES REGARDING THE CHASE AND USE YOUR HEAD.
          6) Again, your pretzel logic argument fools you.
          7) Again, you lead yourself around with fallacies by the nose. Please study some critical thinking. This is really embarrassing, but you don’t know it.

          Hearing his voice? really? Let’s ignore his words and his eugenics programs… you selectively hear what you want – as you’re entire above argument proves… ignore what doesn’t jive with you, and pic out what feels good. David, YOU ARE MIND CONTROLLED. WAKE UP.

          For your information, those Mckenna talks CAME FROM ME in the first place. I put them out. I studied them while doing so. That’s in large part how I figured him out. You’ve clearly never even read his books.

          Listen to his WORDS rather than his sophist voice that hypnotizes you into such inane arguments:

          Here is what McKenna had to say in his own words regarding humanism, feminism, transhumanism, and eugenics – “the limiting of male birth”, from the following Youtube video with Terence “Speaking the Unspeakable” (begins at 1 hour 11 minutes – the Q&A):
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO7pHD3X9M

          Terence McKenna from Speaking the Unspeakable: Maui, 1994. (“In Praise Of Psychedelics”)

          Questioner 1:
          Hi, I just wanted to know if you have heard about a book called The Mutant Message?

          Terence McKenna:
          No.

          Questioner 1:
          I want to tell you little bit about its because it’s very interesting. I think it follows what you’re been talking about. I love what your ideas about collective consciousness. And I think the book describes an aboriginal tribe in Australia that has been living the way in which you’re speaking, in a collective, and what they’ve come to the conclusion of is that they can no longer procreate. Because they have recognized that they can no longer exist on this planet. And the reason they call it the mutant message is they believe we are a mutant life form on this planet that is destroying it to the extent that they can no longer continue their lineage. And it’s an interesting concept, because it’s the first culture that I know of that has selectively chosen not to breed and along with your concept of raising our consciousness so that we understand the destructive nature of ourselves, what about a parallel vision of reducing our population as these people are. Of consciously choosing not to procreate at this time?

          Terence McKenna:

          Well it’s interesting that you brought this up. Yes, I’ve been saying for some time that, ***the mushroom pointed this out to me***, if every woman had only one child the population of the planet would fall 50% in 40 years. 50% in 40 years – without war, revolution, coercion, anything else. Now when you suggest this to people they say, well didn’t they try that in China and it failed?. Yes. But you have to think about a couple of things. First of all a child born to a woman in Maui or Malibu or Manhattan, that child will use between 800 and 1000 times more resources in its lifetime than a child born to a woman in Bangladesh. Why do we preach birth control in Bangladesh? We should be preaching it on Maui, Manhattan and Malibu. Because the women in those places are highly educated, socially responsible, global people. And therefore are the population most likely to respond to this suggestion. If 15% of the women in the high-tech industrial democracies were to to limit their childbearing to one child, within 10 years certain pressure indicators on the planet would begin to move away from the red and into the black.

          So I think that we have got to think with this question of population. There are clearly too many people. And one woman, one child, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist or a psychedelic advocate, to understand the impact of that. If the population of the earth was cut in half everybody alive would be twice as wealthy. It’s possible in 120 years that we could reduce the world’s population to a billion very healthy, very comfortable, very well educated people.

          Ok, that’s part of what ***the mushroom said***. And that may seem radical and some circles, but not here perhaps. It also said something else which I rarely mention, ***but since you brought it up***, there are not only too many people, there are too many men [laughter]. And ***I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies, tax incentives, medical policies, insurance policies, put in place to limit male birth***. It’s very rare in mammal populations that you have a 50-50 ratio of male to female and in fact it’s well-known that male infants are less robust than female infants. And the reason why we have a 50-50 sexual ratio is because we artificially support males, and withdraw all resources from females. I suspect in the high Paleolithic the ratio is closer to 2 to 1 [unsupported – see citations]. And my supposition and thinking about this is that probably the best ratio is about this is 3 to 1. This is the way to feminize the human race if you’re serious. This is the way to advance women if you’re serious. Then what you have is less men, women whose dedication to the reproductive activities is confined in time to the amount of time it takes to raise only one child. This would be tremendously salutary to our problems. I’ve never heard it advocated even by the most radical, lesbian feminist, yada yada. I’ve never heard anyone say male birth should be limited. But it obviously should. And through amniocentesis* and this sort of thing we can steer ourselves toward a population with the predominance of females and those females should have only one child. And 75% of those children should also be female. And I don’t consider myself a gung ho feminist. I mean, ***I’m a feminist*** [feminism has been entirely disproved – by women – see my interview with Karen of Girl Writes What], but I don’t read the literature, or try to understand all of the factions and theories. ***AS A HUMANIST I advocate a reduction in male birth.*** It just seems obvious that that’s the way to go [regarding the current practice of poisoning the male population, see my interview with Curtis Duncan]. If it doesn’t seem obvious to you then let’s have an a public debate about it, and at least make it part of the rhetoric of the culture that this is an option for people to think about.

          Terence McKenna quotes:

          “The Mushroom said. […] But since you brought it up. […] I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies, tax incentives, medical policies, insurance policies, put in place to limit male birth. […]
          This is the way to feminize the human race. […] I’m a feminist. […] AS A HUMANIST I advocate a reduction in male birth.”
          ~ Terence McKenna

          Is Terence actually trying to claim that the mushrooms wanted to promote eugenics and tyrannous government policies, taxes, and medical and insurance policies specifically against men, and limiting male birth, the exact antithesis of the hideous communist policies in China? Are we to believe Terence that the mushrooms would promote more hatred and the murder/limiting of men and baby boys? Does a mother not naturally nurture her offspring? As someone else pointed out to me, what greater evil could there be than to put words like this in the mouth of the sacrament – the mushrooms? What care could the mushrooms possibly have in tyrannical, communist government policies that promote hatred against half the population? Notice how Terence says the mushrooms said, but then switches it to “I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies…”. Nice try, Terence.

          And what is all of this feminism and humanism stuff? Please listen to the following interviews:

          My interview with Karen of Girl Writes What:
          http://www.gnosticmedia.com/karen-of-girlwriteswhat-interview-the-femanist-fallacy-146/

          My interview with Curtis Duncan:
          http://www.gnosticmedia.com/curtis-duncan-interview-the-conspiracy-to-feminize-males-masculinize-females-149/

          After you’ve listened to both of those interviews, I think you’ll be fully well informed to see what McKenna’s agenda is.

          In 1992 Terence McKenna published in his book Archaic Revival:

          These things are all part of the New Age, but I have abandon that term in favor of what I call the Archaic Revival—which places it all in a better historical perspective. When a culture loses its bearing, the traditional response is to go back in history to find the previous “anchoring model.” An example of this would be the breakup the medieval world at the time of the Renaissance. They had lost their compass, so they went back to Greek and Roman models and created classicism—Roman law, Greek aesthetics, and so on.[5] [emphasis added]
          ~ Terence McKenna

          I guess am a soft Dark Ager. I think there will be a mild dark age. I don’t think it will be anything like the dark ages that lasted a thousand years […][9]
          ~ Terence McKenna – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/#sthash.jQgd7yzW.dpuf

          Terence McKenna and the Esalen Institute

          Terence McKenna eventually became the key promoter of the Huxleys’ and the Esalen Institute’s New Dark Age, or neo-feudalist, post-modernist agenda to enslave the masses and turn back history. McKenna’s book The Archaic Revival is essentially a rundown of nearly all of the items promoted by the Fourth World Wilderness agenda to accomplish these goals.[49]

          In the introduction to The Invisible Landscape by the brothers McKenna, Jay Stevens, author of Storming Heaven, makes clear the true agenda of their work:

          Our appetite for simplicity has caused us to compress the chaos of the ‘60s into one monolithic “Youth Revolt.” But there were two philosophies then among the revolutionaries on how the world might be remade. One path, endorsed by political power and using the vantage to raise consciousness and save the world. The other path proposed an attack on the consciousness itself using a controversial and soon outlawed family of psychochemicals-the psychedelics. [emphasis added][50]
          ~Jay Stevens

          Confirming Stevens’ statement, in The Archaic Revival Terence McKenna admits:

          You know, I am very much at variance with the wisdom of hindsight in looking back at how Leary and Alpert and Ralph Metzner handled it in the sixties. But to try to launch a “children’s crusade,” to try to co-opt the destiny of the children of the middle class using the media as your advance man [i.e. Henry Luce and Time-Life] was a very risky business. And it rebounded, I think, badly.
          I think Huxley’s approach was much more intelligent—not to try to reach the largest number of people, but to try to reach the most important and influential people: the poets, the architects, the politicians, the research scientists, and especially the psychotherapists. Because what we’re talking about is the greatest boon to psychotherapy since dreaming. [emphasis added][51]

          Later McKenna admits that Aldous Huxley was a key player behind MK-ULTRA and this neo-feudalism, all the while relating the official version of the story:

          When you go to the Amazon or when you take peyote with the Huichol it is quite a chore to get sufficient material for twenty people. So the release of so much LSD into modern society caused the powers that be [who released it] to assume that the whole social machine was being dissolved in acid—litterally, before their very eyes. I think that this was a mistake, to go at it like this. There were many voices at the time, with many theories of how it should be handled. If Aldous Huxley had lived another ten years, it would have been very different.[52]

          Recently it has come to light that Aldous Huxley was also a member of the Century Club with Gordon Wasson and Allen Dulles.[53]

          In August 2012 Irvin published a short overview of some of his research points on Esalen, Huxley and McKenna, which revealed that Aldous Huxley and the Esalen Institute had long been a key center for distributing this New Dark Age, as well as Fourth World Wilderness agenda to dumb down the masses, essentially being a sort of MK-ULTRA headquarters with Michael Murphy apparently running the entire MK-ULTRA show today.

          Is it coincidence that Terence would hang out with the great grandson of one of the key promoters of Darwin’s theories, Francis Huxley (1), who had ties via his own family to Darwin’s via his cousin (2), and was influenced heavily by Tielhard (3) – who was involved with the Piltdown Hoax (4) – who happened also to have an intro in his book written by Julian Huxley (5), Francis’s father (6), and should then come up with the Stoned Ape theory (7), and promote it and the 2012 meme that was developed by a CIA agent, Coe (8), who just so happened to be in-laws with a friend of Julian’s, Dobhzanski (9), and then dispense the entire meme from Esalen (10), where he spent time with Aldous’s wife, Laura (11), and Esalen happens to have been co-created by Aldous Huxley himself (12)? [54]

          The Invisible landscape, which is essentially an attack on thought, an attempt to get the youth of America to believe there is no truth, also talks about using psychedelics and ending critical thinking to bring about the apocalypse:

          Achievement of the zero state can be imagined to arrive in one of two forms. One is the dissolution of the cosmos in an actual cessation and unraveling of natural laws, a literal apocalypse. The other possibility takes less for granted from the mythologems associated with the collective transformation and entry into concrescence and hews more closely to the idea that concrescence, however miraculous it is, is still the culmination of a human process, a process of toolmaking, which comes to completion in the perfect artifact: the monadic self, exteriorized, condensed, and visible in three dimensions’ in the alchemical terms, the dream of a union of spirit and matter. Presumably, were such a hyper-spatial tool/process discovered, in a very short time it would entirely restructure life’s experience of itself, of time, space, and of otherness, and then it would be these effects which would follow rather than precede the concrescence, and which, through their atemporal influence on the content of visionary experience, would be seen to have given rise to the “apocalyptic scenario” in the expectation of so many ontologies. The appearance in normal space-time of hyper-dimensional body, obedient to a simultaneously transformed and resurrected human will, and able to plumb the obligations and opportunities inherent in this unique juncture in energy’s long struggle for self-liberation, may be apocalypse enough. [emphasis added] [55]

          – See more at: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/#sthash.jQgd7yzW.dpuf

          WAKE UP AND THINK, DAVID. YOU ARE UNDER A SPELL. LEARN TO THINK. LEARN TO ASK QUESTIONS. LEARN TO AVOID THE FALLACIES IN YOUR OWN MIND! YOU ARE BEING FOOLED.

          • David Falao
            September 11, 2013 at 5:06 pm

            Wow, wow, wow! Settle down there now! And you’re talking about ad hominems? I have no religion, and think most of this new-age jazz is pretty blatant bullshit.. I certainly have no “gurus”.
            I think McKenna was a propagator of interesting ideas, that’s all.

            “YOU’RE UNDER A SPELL!”
            And you’re talking of zealotry? If this is your sincere opinion, it’s a pretty accurate representation of the fallacies of your own reality tunnel, and subsequently undermines any potential credibility you had, imho.

            Have you read “Prometheus Rising” by Robert Anton Wilson by the way?

            Eww.. The stench of tin-foil.

          • David Falao
            September 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm

            Also, regarding eugenics.. I had no idea McKenna had ever talked about that! I would be very interested in hearing about that.
            I’m absolutely for reasonable eugenic programs.. The human species is a cancer.. Removing the rotten apples would be best for both our species and our biosphere long term. That’s no fallacy. You can say it’s a “wrong moral compass” or whatever. But it’s not secret the majority of people are quasi-retarded and that we’re also way too many people.

          • David Falao
            September 11, 2013 at 5:25 pm

            I would also like some actual point refutation, instead of suffering through your pseudo-prophetic missionary agenda or whatever it is you “have grasped” and are trying to regurgitate here.

            Let me answer your “refutation”
            1: He doesn’t explicitly exclaim “THIS IS A METAPHOR FOLKS” because it is a joke, which would kind of weaken the humour.
            2: You’re implying I answered that question on my premises, when i’m answering within McKenna’s premise.. I’m explaining HIS reasoning for using this metaphor.. HIS reasoning is that the mushroom is a entity trying to tell us something. And this reasoning is indeed somewhat schizoid.
            3: How is stating the obvious fact that “tripping is weird” implying I see it as a “religion”? It’s a completely perplexing experience beyond language, and thus hard to convert back to language.. It’s probably the most bizarre experience one can have, but it doesn’t necessarily imply any “significance” or “divinity” or whatever. It’s just available experience that happens to be really fucking crazy shit.
            4: Hmm we have to agree to disagree on this one.. I think it’s obvious he’s still on about the “alien” (the mushroom) when he’s talking about “being hired”. Again, he’s using “alien” as a metaphor for “the other”, not “green people from xeno-ganoobi” (which, for clarity’s sake, is a term he has used in other metaphors though)
            5,6 and 7: I don’t get why you’re feeding me my own uncertainty about these points back.. Do you have something to prove? I said I can’t explain these points, and politely suggested you could neither, no need for the arrogance, mate.

            Where are my epistemological fallacies here? Not assuming McKenna had to have worked for some generic intelligence agency by virtue of arbitrary anecdotal “evidence”? (Which would imply what, anyways, really?)

            There are no esoteric secrets being hidden.. Sure, there are conspiracies, but none of them are working. How can we discuss these quasi-schizoid semantics if there was working conspiracies?
            We’re all just humans.. Desperate enclaves of consciousness, trying to make sense of existence.. Condemned to be free, looking for something or someone to blame.

          • September 11, 2013 at 7:37 pm

            David, answer the questions listed, rather than believing in make believe. No, i made no ad hominems against you, I just pointed out that YOU ARE MIND CONTROLLED. You have what is known as “Stockholm Syndrome”. You clearly didn’t bother with studying any of the material I sent you.

            1) Only the alien comment is the joke. He’s talking about the conclusion of his FBI chase, where he is very clear that he got a job in PR. Mushrooms do not have PR, genius.
            2) This talk is being given in 1994 at Esalen which is a CIA and Tavistock study center for social engineering. This is all well published. He feels free to TELL THE TRUTH there about his FBI chase, which is PUBLISHED IN HIS BOOKS. Why are you ignoring his OWN WORDS ABOUT THE CONCLUSION? It is you who is arguing that he’s lying, omitting the entire chase, so that you may continue with your religion. I asked you to please study the trivium to the left.
            3) Tripping is weird. So what? That bares nothing on his admission right here of his FBI/Interpol chase. You’re bringing up irrelevant points while omitting his quotes RIGHT IN YOUR FACE. I furthermore have the Brain Database on this website, and the other articles, already provided to you, which you ignored, plus all of the other quotes provided above. You’re very dishonestly selective in what you choose to take in.
            5,6,7 – if you had studied the trivium study section to the left, and spent an hour learning about logical fallacies, you’d have figured this out already. But you actually have to appeal to magic and make believe and mushrooms gods and fairies and lies and what not for your whole case. I have a 7 year old who doesn’t believe in fairies and magic and all, but you, David, a grown man, does. You focus on what was a joke, the Alien Ambassador sophist shit, and entirely IGNORE every other word. This is entirely dishonest.

            Your fallacies are lies by omission, appeal to religious belief, arguing the arbitrary, avoiding evidence, and failure to take the onus of proof.

            Do you know what the onus of proof is? Not likely if you’re arguing speculatively that he’s talking about working in a POSITION IN PR for mushrooms and getting paid. I asked my 7 year old this and he said that mushrooms don’t have positions or jobs. So my son in fact has more critical thinking skills than you do.

            Yes, there are esoteric secrets, well published, and just because you ignore his books and such facts, and his own words, doesn’t mean your blanket statements, made in total contradiction to the evidence, are true. It’s nothing but your wishful thinking. You’re in a cult. That’s what a cult IS. Look around you… You’re IN IT.

            None of them are working? Are you serious? Wow… talk about argumentum ad ignorantium. Obviously propaganda itself is intended to manipulate others… Here is a blatant, obvious, in your face example that it works. Just because you refuse to study things, make irrelevant attacks, and ignore the evidence, close your eyes, plug your ear and yell “lalalalallala” really loud, doesn’t mean you’re correct. I suggest you begin to study some of the material on this website before you make such sweeping, ignorant and uninformed statements contrary to the facts in your face. When someone ignores the facts in their face and continues with their beliefs, making up lies to cover themselves, this is known as cognitive dissonance, which was covered above. You are suffering it.

            It’s ok, David, we all went through it too. But a cult victim is the last to admit he was a victim. You will continue to lie to yourself and everyone else around you to keep from simply admitted that you were fooled – duped. It’s ok. We all were. Laugh it off. It’ll feel a lot better than making up all of these fallacious lies based on magic and ignorance and avoidance of citations and wishful thinking. Again, I provided several articles that are very well researched and cited to help you. Rather than acting in IGNOR-ANCE, study them and take it in and think and verify the citations.

            But your screaming and screeching and making shit up that wasn’t said, and ignoring the facts of the FBI, and pretending that mushrooms have positions in PR, is about as stupid an argument as one could get… but yet above, you cookie cutter mind control victims parrot this shit over and over like a broken record. THINK. Filter the lies and fallacies and magical, unsupported beliefs from your head.

            Rather than arguing that Terence was hearing schizophrenic voices, use your BRAIN.

            Yes, we are all humans, but that’s irrelevant to the facts you’re ignoring: the articles, the database, the 175 interviews here, our books, etc… Just because you want to believe its so, doesn’t mean that he and the CIA weren’t fully active. Think for just a moment – as we already know – it’s PROVED that Gordon Wasson was CIA and CFR and HEADED MKULTRA subproject 58 to POPULARIZE mushrooms. This same man gave us the word “entheogen”.

            Now here is Terence, admitting he’s an agent in PR… without calling for magic or fairies or gods, and using YOUR BRAIN, do some simple deduction. He was on the run from the FBI. He got caught. He’s out of money, they offer him a job in deepbackground and PR. You don’t have to make ANYTHING up. It’s his own words.

            All of this will sit in your mind, and as you learn HOW to think and HOW to filter these fallacies from your thoughts, and once you don’t AVOID his own statements selling eugenics and all provided to you, then you’ll be able to look at yourself honestly and laugh it off.

            But right now your master has you under his control. The process has begun. You cannot avoid thinking about this issue ever again. It’s now in your mind and you will hopefully free yourself from it.

            Remember, a Christian zealot makes the exact same argument. REALIZE THAT YOU ARE THAT MIND CONTROLLED ZEALOT. No, it’s not a compliment. It’s intended to get you to think and to stop looking at the shadows on the walls of Plato’s cave, thinking it’s reality.

      • David Falao
        September 11, 2013 at 3:42 pm

        When you’re so passionate about biology, botany, ethnology, ethnobotany and entomology, why would you need to make up a reason to go to the amazon; the veritable epitome of biological diversity on our planet..
        And that is in addition to his pharmacological reasons to go there.
        And his friends are probably like most friends; happy to see their friends do stuff.
        But I agree there’s a gap in the story there.. From being chased to interpol to safely studying biology. But I just think it’s more plausible it’s just casual, boring stuff he just didn’t care to mention..
        People get busted for smuggling all the time and get out of it.

        • September 11, 2013 at 8:16 pm

          Stop making up excuses and lies… it’s his own words…he was running from the FBI and he got caught. It’s that fucking simple.

          Obviously he got out of it, as he admits, after running out of money, by taking a job with them. Duh.

          And who would be able to drop his FBI charges of the smuggling but the FBI when it is the FBI who is after him? Hmm? It’s really simple common sense here. No appeal to magic necessary. Read his own fucking words and stop distorting them and lying about what they say. The FBI is after him, he takes a job in PR with them. He calls himself a slacker. It beats HONEST work.

          Where did he get the money? How did he get off? obviously they gave him a job. .. There’s this thing between your ears called a brain, David, please try to use it. Try not to lie and dismiss everything that doesn’t fit with your religious beliefs because it’s not what you were told to believe.

          True Hallucinations pg. 179

          In February of 1970, a year before I arrived at La Chorrera, my fugitive wanderings had taken me to the island of Timor in Eastern Indonesia. Under indictment in the States for the heinous crime of importing hashish, I traveled and lived under the dramatic assumption that international police agencies were combing the globe looking for me. My cover, that of a graduate student in entomology doing field work for a degree—a butterfly collector—had worked well over the previous six months

          “And my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.”

          186:

          and my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.
          I decided to go with the usual half-truth reserved for straight people. “I am an art historian turned biologist. I went to Nepal to study Tibetan but found that I am no linguist when it comes to Asian languages. I have returned to biology, my first love. Specifically, I am an entomologist.
          I am collecting butterflies here in Indonesia retracing the route of Alfred Russell Wallace. Wallace was the real discoverer of the theory of natural selection, but Darwin got all the credit. I identify with his underdog status. Wallace was shafted by Victorian science because he was of the wrong class and didn’t know how to play politics the way Darwin did. Wallace explored the Amazon Basin as well and if all goes well, I hope to travel and collect there too. Eventually I will write a monograph on speciation among the butterflies of Amazonas and Eastern Indonesia, which will get me a degree. Then, who knows. Teaching perhaps. Hard to say. –

          [Henk] He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol. He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]

          First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think. –

          when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then THEY recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization”. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present. –

          USE YOUR HEAD, DAVID. IT’S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. STOP LYING TO YOURSELF AND LOOK AT HIS OWN WORDS.

      • David Falao
        September 11, 2013 at 4:10 pm

        I see you derogotarily reduced the “metaphor-argument” to being equal to saying “god hired him”, which is pretty close to the truth.
        In the context of McKenna’s point of view, “the mushroom” is sort of like a god.
        “An ancient, wise creature of immense knowledge.”

        I think it’s pretty obvious that McKenna said these statements in the context of using metaphors of human organization to that of this more.. intangible community that the mushroom provides.
        You could call it ludicrous, and i’m inclined to agree with you. It IS pretty farfetched to compare the mushroom to a god, but that’s exactly what McKenna did.
        So, if you have to judge him derogotarily, atleast just call him a crackpot who ate too much mushrooms, instead of turning crackpot yourself and thinking he was hired by mundane human organizations.

        • September 11, 2013 at 5:02 pm

          Rather than use the fallacy of appeal to religious belief, stick to what the words actually say and don’t argue that he’s lying. Deal with all of the words and citations in context, including the FBI and Interpol material.

          • David Falao
            September 11, 2013 at 5:30 pm

            We have to relate to “the fallacy of religious appeal” because that’s McKenna’s fallacy. He’s appealing to religious belief. I don’t think he’s lying, I think he genuinely thought of the mushroom spirit as a sentient, intergalactic mind.
            You may say it’s a fallacy to imply these religious connections, and I agree. But I believe that’s what McKenna implies.

            Deal with the words and citations in the context, and the context is McKenna’s eccentric theories of “the mushroom spirit”.
            You can attack the semiotic reference the metaphor is meant to represent (the religious notion), but don’t imply that it necessarily means what it says literally.

  35. Oliver Freedman
    September 5, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Just don’t hold onto the answer, peek at it and then return it, otherwise you get punished.

    • September 5, 2013 at 12:47 pm

      Just use critical thinking, trust your 5 senses to filter the lies and deceptions from your own mind. Learn to rebuild your self-esteem and to trust yourself to find truth. Anyone who told you that truth doesn’t exist was lying to you and is not your friend.

      How do I get punished exactly? Look at the facts, use logic and reason, look at the FBI chase and his admission that he got a job in deep background and PR or propaganda, and then realize how UTTERLY RETARDED your argument is that it’s metaphor. Please study the trivium study section to the left and realize that you’re arguing like a good Christian fanatic about your mystical hero. It’s a religion and you were mind controlled. Laugh it off and get over it and don’t let it happen again. Use your head, not this mystical, wishful, senseless, feelgood nonsense you use to justify this crap to yourself. We’ve exposed McKenna’s other shit extensively here too. Did you bother to read the other articles on his lies and distortions?

      Anyway, I wish you well with your mind control.

      • Oliver Freedman
        September 5, 2013 at 5:08 pm

        It seems perhaps then that it’s the case that you were already punished (or rather, are being punished), and your fervour, which to me can only be driven by fear, stands as a warning to yourself and to others. That is to say, the mushrooms (remember the METAPHOR) are using you to restore the balance that you upset. You don’t have to be conscious of this for it to be true.

        You shouldn’t have held onto the answer Jan, She doesn’t like it when you do that, and now you can’t win the game. You mind has associated the METAPHOR with evil and you’ve become terrified of your-Self. As long as you refuse to accept the METAPHOR and embrace unity, you’re going you remain lost and confused.

        Everything is a goddamn METAPHOR. Everything is the same.

        Why did you change your mind about him, what was the trigger? A bad trip maybe?

  36. greg bell
    September 6, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Jan — can I ask you to speculate a bit? So, they engaged in skilful marketing and PR in order to manufacturer dead heads. Was the plan for ongoing mind-control or just making people stupid?

    And do you think they succeeded?

  37. Felix da Cat
    September 9, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Jan Irvin, you are apparently immune to irony. McKenna was neither a saint nor an undercover agent. Just an eccentric and intelligent fellow with a gift of gab. The “explosive” audio quote you make so much hay out of is just McKenna being clever.

    McKenna was constantly talking about “the mushroom” or “the logos” as if it were an organization, or a species, in contact with him. In the “Explosive” quote, he was describing the breakthrough trip he and his brother experienced at La Chorrera, during which they came to believe they were communicating with an “entity” or species that had traveled to earth and existed in the mushroom.

    “And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

    • September 9, 2013 at 10:54 pm

      Where does he say it’s a metaphor? Why attack me? That would be like me attacking you for being immune to facts and direct quotes and making up wishful stuff to avoid his own words. But why start your whole comment attacking me, instead of going point by point through the entire episode, which was provided entirely in his own words? Why the need to automatically distort and ignore his own words? Just stay focused on the points and other extensive research we’ve already put out on this topic. Why would the metaphor fit perfectly as the conclusion of this FBI / Interpol chase? Do you understand the concept of cognitive dissonance? The Stockholm Syndrome?

      I really understand you. I was there once, believed these guys couldn’t be. But just like Wasson, who headed MKULTRA subproject 58 and was a public relations man for JP Morgan, McKenna here too McKenna admits that he was also in public relations, or propaganda, for 15 years. But you need to use some common sense and critical thinking — what McKenna was against. I know you want to use fallacies to dismiss his own words, and, ironically, it’s YOU who is arguing that he’s lying… with no evidence or justification for doing so, other than your not wanting to look at the facts. If you just read through, you don’t have to dismiss his own words.

      Try to read this again. I’ve cut out his distracting sophism so that it’s easy to stay focused:

      True Hallucinations, p. 22ff:
      Late in August of 1969 fate turned me from hash smuggler to fugitive when one of my Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U.S. Customs. I went underground and wandered throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, viewing ruins in the former and collecting butterflies in the later. Then came my time in Japan. Whether this gave me an edge on the others in experience seemed unlikely.

      True Hallucinations page 166:
      This decision to depart California (Henk:and return to the Amazon) was hailed by my circle in Berkeley. Concern for my mental state was rife among my friends, and rumor had reached us that the FBI was aware that I was somewhere back inside the country and had begun looking for me. The Bombay-to-Aspen hashish blues were catching up with me. It was, as they say, time to make a move.

      True Hallucinations pg. 179
      In February of 1970, a year before I arrived at La Chorrera, my fugitive wanderings had taken me to the island of Timor in Eastern Indonesia. Under indictment in the States for the heinous crime of importing hashish, I traveled and lived under the dramatic assumption that international police agencies were combing the globe looking for me. My cover, that of a graduate student in entomology doing field work for a degree—a butterfly collector—had worked well over the previous six months

      True Hallucinations pg. 186
      I swallowed hard. He didn’t look like the sort of person who would appreciate my stories of fighting the police at the Berkeley barricades shoulder-to-shoulder with affinity groups like the Persian Fuckers and the Acid Anarchists. Nor did my participation in the Human Be-In or the rolling orgies of the Summer of Love in the Haight-Ashbury seem appropriate to mention. And my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.
      I decided to go with the usual half-truth reserved for straight people. “I am an art historian turned biologist. I went to Nepal to study Tibetan but found that I am no linguist when it comes to Asian languages. I have returned to biology, my first love. Specifically, I am an entomologist.
      I am collecting butterflies here in Indonesia retracing the route of Alfred Russell Wallace. Wallace was the real discoverer of the theory of natural selection, but Darwin got all the credit. I identify with his underdog status. Wallace was shafted by Victorian science because he was of the wrong class and didn’t know how to play politics the way Darwin did. Wallace explored the Amazon Basin as well and if all goes well, I hope to travel and collect there too. Eventually I will write a monograph on speciation among the butterflies of Amazonas and Eastern Indonesia, which will get me a degree. Then, who knows. Teaching perhaps. Hard to say.

      [Henk] He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol. He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]

      Note he fled to avoid capture by Interpol but then after a time he casually returns to Berkeley?

      First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think.

      Attempts to get an answer from Terence’s brother, Dennis, regarding the above episode have failed. It seems they want us to believe that Terence just went from being wanted by Interpol and the FBI to just casually lecturing about psychedelics. What happened in the interim? Someone must know the answer.”

      We finally have the conclusion to what happened to Terence after the FBI had caught him:

      Terence McKenna:
      I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

      Now to your comments about a metaphor, as was already posted above:

      1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
      2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
      3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
      4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
      5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
      6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
      7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

      Please also study his background: http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-1227

      And the other articles already published on this topic on this website:

      How Darwin, Huxley, and the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions – and began one of the largest mind control operations in history. Some brief notes. By Jan Irvin, August 28, 2012
      http://www.gnosticmedia.com/SecretHistoryMagicMushroomsProject#HowDarwinHuxley

      Manufacturing the Deadhead:
      http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/

      See also the trivium study section to the left.

      The irony is that you don’t understand that someone who is in public relations, or propaganda, would use this exact type of sophism you describe to fool people who don’t understand logical fallacies and such manipulative tricks. Actually, that’s the entire point of propaganda in the first place.

  38. richie peters
    September 11, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Yawn Irvin was the wannabe new McKenna, since he didn’t measure up to Terence’s brilliance he went sour grapes and now attacks every icon of the early psychedelic age. hahah What a narcissistic buffoon! The whole key to this McKenna rap is the beginning… “do you mean why am I the alien ambassador whether I like it or not?” Everything said after that is in reference to his being an agent for the mushroom. Everyone who has had an ongoing relationship with the mushroom, has felt this. Yawn is either a fake tripster (lying again) or was kicked out by the mushrooms for being such an asshole… otherwise he would know this. Every one of Yawn’s questions about this McKenna tape have been answered, no need to rehash that…

    • September 11, 2013 at 11:17 am

      Wow, you’re obviously so spiritual and evolved that you learned how to name call and lie about people. You must have really transcended! LMFAO! Calling me narcissistic while you came here to name call like a small child having a temper tantrum.

      It has been said that great minds debate ideas.
      Mediocre minds talk about events.
      Small minds attack people.

      Based on your own post, which do you think you are?

      Over 55 interviews with the world’s leading experts on psychedelics on this website, hundreds of citations and studies, etc, to back all of this up, and all you can do is make fun of my name, name call, leap to false assumptions, and ignore every bit of research… you’re JUST like a good Christian Zealot.

      You must feel really, really insecure about yourself to come here and name call and make up lies about someone to protect your religion. It’s so, so sad to see this sort of behavior.

      Description of Ad Hominem

      Translated from Latin to English, “Ad Hominem” means “against the man” or “against the person.”

      An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of “argument” has the following form:

      Person A makes claim X.
      Person B makes an attack on person A.
      Therefore A’s claim is false.

      The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

      So rather than come up with an intelligent argument, you name called. This clearly reveals your argument as entirely intellectually bankrupt – and you entirely uneducated and insecure. Anyone who attacks the messenger rather than going point by point over the message is always revealed as insecure.. Thanks for sharing your psychological issues with us.

      I really dig how you come here to call me the narcissistic buffoon, without even studying the work. But who other than a buffoon would go to someone else’s website just to name call at them because he feels threatened and scared over research and information he’s not studied? Is that not the definition of a buffoon?

      You’re so mushroom spiritual. LMAO. Pull your mind controlled head out of your ass and get a job.

  39. David Falao
    September 11, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    Wow.. You really got to have your tin foil hat pulled down your ankles to even imagine this could have anything to do with arbitrary CIA agendas like MKULTRA and other quasi-ominous pseudo-sci-fi-esque rumination..
    If you have any familiarity with McKenna and his writing, or just a basic understanding of the concept of “sarcasm”, it should be blatantly obvious that McKenna is just playing on the “alien ambassador”-theme he brought up..

    <>
    It’s a joke. People who get it are laughing in the background. By “they”, he means “the logos”, “the other”, “the mushroom spirit” etc, and not a literal, human organization..
    “First I did some background work” (he tripped his brains out and communed with the logos)
    “Then they put me in public relations” (he started talking about his trips and theories)

    I mean.. Come on, people.. Get a grip.

    • September 11, 2013 at 8:30 pm

      David, attacking me rather than the work is a sign of complete intellectual bankruptcy. .. My god, think. You’re not really this dumb are you? Are you just some dumb sophist yourself? I’ve read all his books, and as I already told you, if you’re even read these replies, most of his audio out there today CAME FROM ME and this website. I own the rights most of McKenna’s audio. Thank you. Try not to make up any further lies or assumptions.

      Description of Ad Hominem

      Translated from Latin to English, “Ad Hominem” means “against the man” or “against the person.”

      An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of “argument” has the following form:

      Person A makes claim X.
      Person B makes an attack on person A.
      Therefore A’s claim is false.

      The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

      Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
      Description of Appeal to Ridicule

      The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an “argument.” This line of “reasoning” has the following form:

      X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed at the claim).
      Therefore claim C is false.

      This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious because mocking a claim does not show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following example: “1+1=2! That’s the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!”

      Description of Circumstantial Ad Hominem

      A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy in which one attempts to attack a claim by asserting that the person making the claim is making it simply out of self interest. In some cases, this fallacy involves substituting an attack on a person’s circumstances (such as the person’s religion, political affiliation, ethnic background, etc.). The fallacy has the following forms:

      Person A makes claim X.
      Person B asserts that A makes claim X because it is in A’s interest to claim X.
      Therefore claim X is false.

      Person A makes claim X.
      Person B makes an attack on A’s circumstances.
      Therefore X is false.

      A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy because a person’s interests and circumstances have no bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made. While a person’s interests will provide them with motives to support certain claims, the claims stand or fall on their own. It is also the case that a person’s circumstances (religion, political affiliation, etc.) do not affect the truth or falsity of the claim. This is made quite clear by the following example: “Bill claims that 1+1=2. But he is a Republican, so his claim is false.”

      If you’re so stupid that you’re only capable of name calling, and mocking, then this certainly isn’t spiritual and just shows that you’ve nothing honest to discuss here. You shouldn’t be appealing to mushroom gods either, because your posts are evidence that you have DEVOLVED into name calling, fallacy slinging. This is not intelligence or transcendence or enlightenment in any way. It’s just ignorance and lying. It’s ugly.

      If you’d like to discuss the facts and citations, for instance in this article, then lets do so. But your childish name calling will not be tolerated.

      http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/

      It has been said that great minds debate ideas.
      Mediocre minds talk about events.
      Small minds attack people.

      Come on David, rather than name call and appeal to magic fairies and ridicule, use your brains… The one who doesn’t have a grip here is clearly you. You argue that magical mushroom gods spoke to McKenna in voices to get him to lie about a position in PR and deep background. That’s some seriously retarded shit. Do you hear yourself?

      You avoided every citation and detail. .. This is very dishonest. Wake up.

      • David Falao
        September 12, 2013 at 8:47 am

        Wow. Where to start. You’re not EVEN fallacious.
        Have fun with your cult, man! Good luck! :)

      • David Falao
        September 12, 2013 at 8:57 am

        Also, to answer your quasi-retarded typical new-age jargon of “spirituality” and “enlightenment” and “transcendence” or whatever..
        What isn’t spiritual? How can there be enclaves of greater or lesser spirituality?
        Everything is “divine” all the time for “merely existing”.
        There is no transcendence, no enlightenment, no scales of spirituality.
        There is only one fact; “there is existence”. Anything else are arbitrary assumptions of our nervous system; pretending its phenomenological mirages are actually applicable.

        I see your writing of recognizing logical fallacies, plato’s cave and in general good epistemology, but then I see your strawmen and how you put words in my mouth.. I don’t get you, guy.

        Have you read Robert Anton Wilson btw? (And please don’t start your derogotation-machine and yelling “HE’S YOUR HERO” just because I mention an author.)

        We’re all the same species here. Even CIA. We’re all instruments of life. Made by life for life. Anything anyone does is life itself continuing its agenda. We can’t lose. Of course one can die or have other personal tragedies, but life doesn’t care about that. Life cares about more life.

        • David Falao
          September 12, 2013 at 9:07 am

          [Edit for paragraph 2:

          It’s just slightly weird to be talking about decent epistemological routines while simultaneously claiming to “hold all the answers”. It’s pretty oxymoronic.]

  40. David Falao
    September 11, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    Ladies and gentlemen, welcome! To the WAR OF STRAWMEN!
    Which redundant rhetoric will win!? Does it even matter?
    You’ve come for rage and embarassing intellectual pride, and that’s what you’ll get!

    • September 11, 2013 at 8:00 pm

      No David, if you refuse to stick to actual facts, and if you refuse to study the trivium, and if you continue to appeal to magical fairies to do your thinking for you, you’ll just be banned.

      There is a simple process for critical thinking. You’re not displaying it here. Again, learn the logical fallacies and learn to remove these fallacies from your own thoughts. Your mystical appeals to religion and ignorance and avoiding the obvious facts and words in your face is not an example of critical thinking. You display ignorance, not redundant rhetoric. Your rhetoric is just thoughtless parroting from others who told you what to think.

      I’m not displaying pride. I’m using critical thinking and not appealing to magic to do it. Your need to attack me rather than deal with the information shows that your argument is entirely intellectually bankrupt. But this was already pointed out.

      From now on I’ll do a logical breakdown of each of your fallacious arguments. It would be helpful if you would actually study the trivium though so that we may move forward with an iota of critical thinking.

      It is also noted that you intentionally ignored every citation given to you, instead choosing argumentum ad ignorantium.

      “Don’t confuse me with facts, the magical mushroom god and his Saint McKenna already told me what to think!”

      Be well David, and good luck. Any future posts of yours that avoid the details of the FBI chase and continue your repeated appeals to fanciful, magical beliefs and lack of critical thinking will be deleted.

      We can only handle so much of the inane.

      • David Falao
        September 12, 2013 at 8:34 am

        I’m sick of your redundant assumptions.. You constantly make up the philosophical viewpoints of the people disagreeing with you on this single point, and then claim they MUST HAVE LOGICAL FALLACIES..
        What is this shit about INSISTING i’m religious? I’ve never worshipped McKenna.. He’s a interesting character.. It doesn’t mean I unconditionally agree with 100% of everything he says.. Stop mixing in your own derogotary assumptions of my own philosophical views.

        “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
        – Aristotle

        Stop fucking putting words in my mouth and talking to me like i’m 5 years old.. You’re the one with the prophetic “I KNOW THE TRUTH CHILDREN!”-style rhetoric here.
        Please, stop the fucking ad hominems, stop putting words in my mouth and start debating like a normal person without your shitface arrogant sarcasm that does absolutely nothing to help the credibility you for some insane reason seem to think you have.
        This is psychopath rhetoric, mate.
        And then of course you pull the censor-card.. Ahh the good old hypocrite..
        “Hey, I have the truth here already, no point confusing anyone.. I’ll just decide what is the truth myself!” is a surprisingly prevalent notion in this fucking “new-age”-cult you’re claiming not to be a part of. “DON’T YOU SEE? YOU’RE BRAINWASHED BY YOUR CULT MAN” while preaching to the choir.

        If McKenna in fact was hired by the CIA, then I think that’s a good argument for saying CIA has good reasons. I totally agree that we need eugenic programs to wipe out most of our retarded species so we consentrate on starting our colonization of the galaxy.

        Whatever, I should have known it to be pointless to argue with silly do-gooders like yourself.. Insisting on polarity, desperately categorizing existence into arbitrary moral camps. Endlessly separating, discriminating, distinguishing particular specificity.

        “There’s a brilliant man somewhere
        pouring over difficult texts
        his three tips are unique
        his six arts place him apart
        his spirit soars above others
        his qualities transcend the crowd
        But blind to the truth in front of him,
        he chases all sorts of distinctions”
        – Hanshan

        It doesn’t matter what happens.

        “To have a human form is a joyful thing. But in the universe of possible forms, there are others just as good. Isn’t it a blessing to have these uncountable possibilities! The sages take pleasure in an early death, in old age, in the origin and in the end and sees them all as equally good.”
        – The Book of Chuang Tzu

        Poetry is my only “religion”, if you have to insist that your arbitrary assumption that I unconditionally subscribe to one, single label for some reason, is actually applicable.

      • David Falao
        September 12, 2013 at 10:01 am

        I’m not subscribing to McKennas view of the mushroom spirit. All i’m saying is that that is HIS point of view. HE believed the mushroom was an entity, knew it was farfetched and so tried to make some humor out of it.

        Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth.

        “Don’t confuse me with facts”. The facts are that McKenna was an eccentric who likened the mushroom spirit to an agency.

        And before you comment.. DISCLAIMER: THESE ARE NOT MY OWN BELIEFS. I’M PRESENTING WHAT MCKENNA BELIEVED. STOP INSISTING MY OWN UNRELATED PHILOSOPHICAL VIEWS MUST BE RELIGIOUS.

  41. James E
    September 30, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    I recently debunked this claim that McKenna was recruited by the FBI. I have found audio of Terence explicitly saying that it was in fact “the mushroom” that had “recruited” him–not the FBI. For those interested, my debunking can be read here: http://bit.ly/18lopnv

    • September 30, 2013 at 2:38 pm

      Sadly, you’re so-called debunking is totally fallacious and has to actually ignore his own words. Of course your points were already covered. Why do you have to entirely IGNORE his FBI and INTERPOL chase? Why do you IGNORE that mushrooms don’t have deep background and public relations? Why do you IGNORE that he was out of money and they offered him a job?

      You’ve not debunked anything. You’ve just proved that you can create a straw man argument and ignore the evidence. Please see the trivium study section to the left and remove the fallacies and lies of omission in your post before you claim that you’ve debunked a thing.

      You can’t debunk something by ignoring the evidence for the simple reason that it doesn’t jive with your religious views. When you omit all of the evidence, this is known as the lie of omission. When you then present something else from another conversation, from another time line, as if it’s answering to this stream of thought, this is known as the lie of the red herring. That’s what you’ve done. All of these points were already posted, but you ignored each one. You must address these without pretending that they don’t exist.
      Let’s try this again:

      Why the need to automatically distort and ignore his own words? Why the need to bring up a totally seperate conversation? He’s very clear that this particular conversation is about his FBI chase. But in your so-called debunking, you ignore the FBI chase and his own words. You have to lie by omission. Just stay focused on the points and other extensive research we’ve already put out on this topic. Why did you ignore that we already addressed your entire “debunking”? Is that not totally disengenuous to ignore that we already debunked you, and then lie by omitting each point we raised?

      Why would the metaphor fit perfectly as the conclusion of this FBI / Interpol chase? Do you understand the concept of cognitive dissonance? The Stockholm Syndrome?

      I really do understand you. I was there once, believed these guys couldn’t be. But just like Wasson, who headed MKULTRA subproject 58 and was a public relations man for JP Morgan, McKenna here too McKenna admits that he was also in public relations, or propaganda, for 15 years. But you need to use some common sense and critical thinking — what McKenna was against. I know you want to use fallacies to dismiss his own words, and, ironically, it’s YOU who is arguing that he’s lying… with no evidence or justification for doing so, other than your not wanting to look at the facts. If you just read through, you don’t have to dismiss his own words.

      Try to read this again. I’ve cut out his distracting sophism so that it’s easy to stay focused:

      True Hallucinations, p. 22ff:
      Late in August of 1969 fate turned me from hash smuggler to fugitive when one of my Bombay-to-Aspen shipments fell into the hands of U.S. Customs. I went underground and wandered throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, viewing ruins in the former and collecting butterflies in the later. Then came my time in Japan. Whether this gave me an edge on the others in experience seemed unlikely.

      True Hallucinations page 166:
      This decision to depart California (Henk:and return to the Amazon) was hailed by my circle in Berkeley. Concern for my mental state was rife among my friends, and rumor had reached us that the FBI was aware that I was somewhere back inside the country and had begun looking for me. The Bombay-to-Aspen hashish blues were catching up with me. It was, as they say, time to make a move.

      True Hallucinations pg. 179
      In February of 1970, a year before I arrived at La Chorrera, my fugitive wanderings had taken me to the island of Timor in Eastern Indonesia. Under indictment in the States for the heinous crime of importing hashish, I traveled and lived under the dramatic assumption that international police agencies were combing the globe looking for me. My cover, that of a graduate student in entomology doing field work for a degree—a butterfly collector—had worked well over the previous six months

      True Hallucinations pg. 186
      I swallowed hard. He didn’t look like the sort of person who would appreciate my stories of fighting the police at the Berkeley barricades shoulder-to-shoulder with affinity groups like the Persian Fuckers and the Acid Anarchists. Nor did my participation in the Human Be-In or the rolling orgies of the Summer of Love in the Haight-Ashbury seem appropriate to mention. And my recent stint as a hashish smuggler in India and my subsequent move undercover to avoid capture by Interpol also seemed out of place in this particular interview.
      I decided to go with the usual half-truth reserved for straight people. “I am an art historian turned biologist. I went to Nepal to study Tibetan but found that I am no linguist when it comes to Asian languages. I have returned to biology, my first love. Specifically, I am an entomologist.
      I am collecting butterflies here in Indonesia retracing the route of Alfred Russell Wallace. Wallace was the real discoverer of the theory of natural selection, but Darwin got all the credit. I identify with his underdog status. Wallace was shafted by Victorian science because he was of the wrong class and didn’t know how to play politics the way Darwin did. Wallace explored the Amazon Basin as well and if all goes well, I hope to travel and collect there too. Eventually I will write a monograph on speciation among the butterflies of Amazonas and Eastern Indonesia, which will get me a degree. Then, who knows. Teaching perhaps. Hard to say.

      [Henk] He was forced to move to avoid capture by Interpol. He wandered through Southeast Asia viewing ruins, collected butterflies in Indonesia, and worked as an English teacher in Tokyo. He then went back to Berkeley to continue studying biology, which he called “his first love”.[6]

      Note he fled to avoid capture by Interpol but then after a time he casually returns to Berkeley?

      First of all, why would Terence friends hail the idea of him returning to the Amazon because they were concerned about his mental state while the cause of his mental state was his prior trip to the Amazon? That’s a contradiction. Why would Terence make up a reason to go back to the Amazon? Him being wanted by the FBI should be plenty reason I think.

      Attempts to get an answer from Terence’s brother, Dennis, regarding the above episode have failed. It seems they want us to believe that Terence just went from being wanted by Interpol and the FBI to just casually lecturing about psychedelics. What happened in the interim? Someone must know the answer.”

      We finally have the conclusion to what happened to Terence after the FBI had caught him:

      Terence McKenna:
      I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then “THEY” recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization“. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

      Now to your comments about a metaphor, as was already posted above:

      1) Do mushrooms have organizations, deep background and public relations (propaganda)? Or does a spy agency?
      2) What would mushrooms need with a public relations or propaganda department? Or is that something a spy agency would have?
      3) Would mushrooms tell him the less said the better: “deep background positions about which the less said the better”, or is that something an agency would do?
      4) Do mushrooms have “positions”? Or does an agency?
      5) Are the mushrooms able to pay him because he’s out of money? Or is that something an agency could do? (remember he’s in trouble for smuggling)
      6) Are mushrooms able to get him out of trouble with Interpol and the FBI for DRUG SMUGGLING? Or is that something an agency like the CIA or FBI could do?
      7) Do mushrooms answer the story of what happened to him after his arrest? Or is that something that his employment as an agent would do?

      Please also study his background: http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-1227

      And the other articles already published on this topic on this website:

      How Darwin, Huxley, and the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions – and began one of the largest mind control operations in history. Some brief notes. By Jan Irvin, August 28, 2012
      http://www.gnosticmedia.com/SecretHistoryMagicMushroomsProject#HowDarwinHuxley

      Manufacturing the Deadhead:
      http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/

      See also the trivium study section to the left.

      Again, I understand that he’s your religious hero and that you’re grasping at fallacious straws to ignore his own words, ignoring the fact that public relations, or propaganda’s entire purpose is to fool you JUST LIKE HE HAS. You’re free to believe this nonsense you’ve posted, chosing to ignore logic and his own words, creating a straw man to a different topic and pretending it’s the same one, ignoring the FBI and INTERPOL chase, but all of this bahavior isn’t honest. You’re fooling no one but yourself and those gullible enough to believe these fallacies you’ve used to do your thinking for you.

      • bob dobbs
        February 23, 2014 at 3:53 pm

        Hey, McKenna was clearly a mistaken individual. He was brilliantly mistaken. But you, Jan are simply mistaken here. Mistaken in the most dull of senses. He was being clever. He was referring to his belief that he was a mouthpiece for a transcendent intelligence communicating with humans through mushrooms. It would seem he was not. He was enamored of the products of his own imagination. Just because you have uncovered a truth in the manufacturing of a psychedelic ‘movement’ to render impotent the political organizing underway in the early 60’s onward… doesn’t mean that everything is going to neatly fit under this interpretation. In fact, I would suggest that ‘they’ were more clever than that. Once the thing got going, no specific intervention was needed except to make sure the right drugs were available in the right places so as to discombobulate and pacify the resistance. All the while they thought they were fomenting revolution… The best consipracy is one when the conspirators don’t even know they are agents of the conspiracy! It’s a sloppy imprecise kind of control, but it produces its effect nonetheless!!!

        • February 24, 2014 at 9:19 am

          Please read the above article, then answer the questions without making anything up. Thanks.

  42. Sajo Vrba
    October 27, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Hello out there….

    I am a newbie when it comes to psychedelic sophistication (and my english is somewhat frail) but i hope you´ll get the point.
    My encounter with the mushroom was somewhat of an “accident”. Before i even knew anything about psychedelics i went down to Amsterdam and had an expirience that, simply put, rocked my boat. While tripping, a voice, with a clear imagery, presented me with what i perceived as some kind of an instruction or a plan or something. The voice said ” You will set out across the country in your RV, volonteering helping people in whatever needed. After some time of doing that, your efforts will become known amongst the people and thus lead to a public television interview on the morning news, where you will have the opportunity to reveal, that the impulse for your doing, came from me…..” …..- roughly speaking…

    Now, remember, this was BEFORE i knew anything about the psychedelic history, or rhetorics…..or the rest of it….but, the possibility of being in contact and to receive messages, visions and instructions, like McKenna is claiming, cannot be ignored i think…..because they seem to happen not only to one person….

    But again, i´m a newbie in all this and have yet to come to any kind of conclusions about the voice, visions and this seemingly other which seemed so eager,in a way, to make it self known through me…..

    • October 27, 2013 at 10:43 am

      Please see the trivium material to the left. It may give you more insight.

  43. david llewellyn foster
    November 3, 2013 at 5:42 am

    I’ve been out of this loop for a while, but these threads are interesting. I think closure is mistaken and illusory, but that is precisely what dogmatic agendas try to inveigle ~ their purpose is restriction.

    I should like to comment on the meaning of “bard” cited above.

    Celebrating the achievements of warriors, chieftains, tribal leaders and so on, does not necessarily imply being under their “patronage.” The only real patronage inferred is to a tradition, to an ethnic memory; literally a “calling,” that may be an inherited family gift or bestowed as an initiatory privilege to participate in a (sacred) lineage, that dramatizes vividly remembered histories through poetry (& music) perpetuated with great skill. In West Africa they use the term “Griot” for exactly the same idea, only the emphasis on the inherited musical tradition may be more prominent ~ or arguably more integrated than the fragmentation and dualism that ensued from the divisive influence of “christianity” in Europe, since the true initiatory origin of the Western (Gnostic) current stems from the teachings of “Dionysos.” This is how the Wikipedia entry begins ~

    “A griot (/ˈɡri.oʊ/; French pronunciation: ​[ɡʁi.o]), jali or jeli (djeli or djéli in French spelling) is a West African historian, storyteller, praise singer, poet and/or musician. The griot is a repository of oral tradition, and is also often seen as something of a societal leader due to his traditional position as an adviser to royal personages. As a result of the former of these two functions, he is sometimes also called a bard. According to Paul Oliver in his book Savannah Syncopators, “Though [the griot] has to know many traditional songs without error, he must also have the ability to extemporize on current events, chance incidents and the passing scene. His wit can be devastating and his knowledge of local history formidable”. Although they are popularly known as “praise singers”, griots may also use their vocal expertise for gossip, satire, or political comment…”

    The Central Intelligence “Agency” is by default a christist organization, hence their definition of “Intelligence” is not one I would ever subscribe to.

    MKULTRA clearly “recruited” permeated and bankrolled the entire academic psychological community in the US and beyond. If TM was indeed opportunist enough to play their game, then Jan is really disentangling a type of systemic corruption that, just like a metastasized cancer, infected the entire US post-WW2 culture. What is more, talking “intelligently” about this purposeful infiltration through the mind-manipulating antics of this insidious “Agency’s” christist minions, is now impossible without invoking the notion of mycelial intelligence; because Paul Stamets in particular has developed its significance that is so deeply implicated in the bioremediation of the entire ecosystem of the earth, not to mention the “mental health” of its human inhabitants.

    The question remains then, just who or what is using whom & to what end, for whose advantage? Who is behind this monstrous corruption?

    My considered understanding is that the entire rotten mess is one big black hole fabricated under the false pretenses of religion, historically buttressed by corporate tyranny and industrial financiers. What is the true intelligence of life? Can the CIA or any other of its multiple personae or masks and incarnations be designated intelligent at all? Seems to me the whole charade is an absurd pathology ~ a parapsychopathological affliction particularly at home in America.

    Surely true intelligence is embedded in the ethical acts and cognitive processes we engage and perform? So why not listen to the arguments here intelligently, and reflect constructively on the implications of what is being discussed? In my estimation all inquiry is healthy ~ even better, if we can build on our rational understanding and produce some worthwhile consequences.

    I would therefore endorse Jan’s stand on critical thinking wholeheartedly. We may never be able to understand TM in all his complexity because, as human beings we are always culpable and capable of self-deception; so we can only ever speculate on the basis of informed reflection, and hard praxis; and should therefore remain skeptical even about anything that we have witnessed or experienced directly ourselves, since all conditions are provisional in a metaphysical sense. I subscribe to Benny Shanon’s perspective, its all a learning curve, initiation is perpetual and (likely even inversely) exponential. We can never assume that we have ever “arrived” at some mystical destination. It is a process. Life itself is a process. Maybe the truth really does only manifest in beauty.

  44. Ryan Caron
    November 25, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    I stayed up all night last night listening to a 5 hour Mckenna lecture and this was part of it. I hate to say this, but I completely disagree with Jan for the first time ever. To me, it’s really obvious that he’s talking about the mushrooms. If you listen to the entire lecture he gave, he is talking about the mushrooms recruiting him, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind. We don’t need to apply the trivium to this. He’s joking around with the crowd–and he uses the words “They” referring to the mushrooms like 5 times in the entire speech. I think I understand Mckenna much more after listening to that 5 hour presentation all at once. He even talks about the New World Order, but uses the term “World global state” or something along those lines. Mckenna was extremely intelligent, and when he says he doesn’t believe in Conspiracy theories, what he is really saying is basically what Jan has been proving for the last year or so. Meaning, this is what Government is. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s what they’ve always done, and always will do. Government has ALWAYS done this. He talks about the bankers, how the system is fixed, how is all absolute garbage and lots more. The link is here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2sDf-nnGQ

    If you can make it through all five hours, you will easily come to understand what he is saying. He was asked a question about how he got interested in all of this, and his answer was that “They recruited me”. He is CONSTANTLY talking about the mushrooms in this way. It’s really, really obvious. It was insight that the mushrooms gave him to start talking about psychedelics. I really hate to disagree with Jan, I haven’t had the time to look into this recently, but after listening to that five hour video last night, there is no doubt in my mind that he’s talking about the mushrooms. I mean… it’s really not even up for discussion. If i hadn’t of pulled an all nighter studying I could explain this better, but for all you believers that Mckenna was an FBI agent etc, listen to the entire video I posted. He rails against the global world and government– and many, many other things. When he is talking about being recruited….. it’s painfully obvious he’s talking about the mushrooms. It was THEY who recruited him into DEEP cover positions etc.

    ” And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present”– It’s really easy to see how this can be misconstrued, but that’s because he’s joking with the crowd. Again, watch/listen to all 5 hours: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2sDf-nnGQ

    Sorry Jan, I love you buddy but this is a mistake. It’s very easy to see how this can be misconstrued…his wording is almost too perfect to not believe he wasn’t an agent, but you have to listen to the entire thing and listen to his constant references of what the mushroom told him. It’s really obvious :(.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np2sDf-nnGQ

  45. nick S
    February 12, 2014 at 9:21 am

    I’m cold to any of this. Just listening to that one small clip. He seems like he’s using double entendre. The people are laughing and there’s likely body language we are not seeing.

    • February 12, 2014 at 12:00 pm

      read the excerpts from his book above. It follows exactly, as does his files being classified.

  46. jon croak
    June 29, 2014 at 6:20 am

    Jan claims that McKenna worked for CIA/FBI as a result of smuggling hash.. In 1974 George Jung was arrested for smuggling 600 POUNDS of cannabis and was released from prison a year later. Many incidents of cannabis smuggling got a slap on the wrist back then. To assume McKenna would take a career in “mind control” because he smuggled some weed is ridiculously farfetched..

    After reading these comments its obvious that Jan is paranoid. He diminished those that defend McKenna by assuming they follow religiously and calling them “mind controlled”. Jan clearly lacks necessary evidence yet speaks out of certainty, this is known as cognitive dissonance.

    Having listened to Mckenna, he believed idealogoy is toxic he was all about thinking for yourself.

    “Only psychos and shamans create their own reality.”

    “I’m aware that some of my ideas may be interpreted as delusional so be forewarned”

    -Terence McKenna

    • June 29, 2014 at 9:38 am

      Yeah, except being mind controlled isn’t your own reality. That’s absurd. You’re confusing marketing and PR with fact.

      • jon croak
        June 29, 2014 at 2:23 pm

        You have no actual proof this is merely a theory, and if this was court you would have absolutely no case haha. I urge you support your theory with a hypothesis of how McKenna was *mind controlling* before you call people *mind controlled*. Otherwise it looks like you’re objective is to bash a free thinking stoner..

        You claim McKenna was talking to fellow CIA agents in this lecture lol.. 1) Why would McKenna admit he works for CIA when he knows he’s being recorded? 2) Why would McKenna give a 5 hour lecture to fellow agents?

        Using your logic that means this lecture is completely legitimate right? Because McKenna wouldn’t *mind control* fellow CIA agents.

        Ask yourself, do these quotes sound like a brainwasher or do they sound like a philosopher?

        “You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half baked moron consuming all of this trash.”

        “If the words ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’ don’t include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn’t worth the hemp it was written on.”

        “Western civilization is a loaded gun pointed at the head of this planet.”

        “If you don’t have a plan, you become part of somebody else’s plan.”

        Terence McKenna spent his life working for the CIA because he got caught smuggling some fuckin weed!? Make a convincing argument before making unconvincing accusations based on no actual evidence and references..

        • AndyB
          August 21, 2014 at 1:19 am

          Ask yourself, does this sound like a brainwasher or does this sound like a philosopher?

          Here’s Terrence McKenna talking about killing off the majority of the male population and essentially justify genocide in the name of feminism.

          http://youtu.be/_IO7pHD3X9M?t=1h11m5s

          I especially love the part where Terence talks about eradicating the male population to the point where there’s only 25% of us left as a legitimate policy and solution. What a great guy Terence was!

  47. Luis Bere
    July 8, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    I know my comment is way to late but I’d like post it on the grounds that this is the kind of back and forth i see time and time again in these subjects. So what if he was an agent? The ideas he shared throughout his life are about finding your own path and even if his theories were wrong it does not matter. The man believed what he preached. People get so caught up on this or that that they miss the big picture. The truth is we don’t know shit about anything and if these are the “slip-ups” that us mere civilians catch than imagine the things we will never know. so in turn it does not matter. Terence has had a huge impact in my life and led me to so many other wonderful people and ideas that whether he was an agent or not is trivial. We are at the mercy of the big powers that be so at the end of the day getting all worked up over this does nothing. the meaning of life is pretty simple and cliche. Love. all the assumed knowledge you acquire does nothing in the end if it leaves you uncertain and/or distraught . getting caught up in all this will add nothing to your life. it does not mean we should ignore it but giving it all this attention and for what? those who blindly follow will continue to do so, those who are easily persuaded will continue to so, those who are angst and out to prove or disprove (insert word here) will continue to do so. If terence has had a profound positive effect in your life it does not matter whether he was an agent or not.
    and if you are reading this and thinking of arguments about points i made or something specific i said than you are being to anal in life my friend.

    • July 8, 2014 at 9:41 pm

      It’s probably a good idea to understand the agenda before saying “the ideas he shared throughout his life are about finding your own path and even if his theories were wrong it does not matter.:”

      It matters very much indeed. See, for instance, the manufacturing the deadhead article.

      We must learn to question the foundations of our premises and what’s being sold to us and why before we decide to agree with it. If you’re for your own eugenics, then fine. Those who tell you you can’t know truth are lying to you and are not your friends… don’t get swallowed up by their lies… “truth is we don’t know shit about anything” – sure, if you choose not to think and verify, and if you believe these guys that you can’t know truth. It’s an ILLUSION.

      Study first, gather information, think, then decide. What doesn’t add anything to your life is not thinking and spewing stuff that is BS. If you need to name call and can’t deal with the facts “anal” then I can only pity your situation. Good luck. What makes life cliche, is your constant use of cliche, fallacious “thinking”. You obviously felt so insecure about the information that you needed to attack us and post this diatribe – excusing the facts and justifying the delusion. Why is that? Why does this information make you feel so insecure, Luis?

      What you’re doing is blindly following. We’re giving you some information that you can check… so then why attack us as “anal” and launch into childish name calling because we dared to post research, and others, such as yourself, reacted emotionally and couldn’t deal with the facts? Does that say something about us? Or you? Is posting research “blindly following”? really? Why? Why does new information frighten you? Why lash out with name calling as the others? Is name calling some form of thinking, or a lack there of? If it’s a lack there of, should you not consider more deeply your current situation – since – this whole topic is about mind control?

      • jon croak
        July 13, 2014 at 7:47 pm

        You ass-umptively attack people that merely listen to mckennas words. I listen to many lectures, even evangelical sermons but that doesnt mean I blindly agree with them.. Mckenna obviously had some perspective worth sharing just like Ray Kursweil has some, itd be crude to disagree.

        No idealogoy knows what’s going on, that is fucking true. Can YOU tell me what existence is? Of course you can’t and not even “God” would have the answer because God would not know how to answer, there is no category for it.

        A parachute doesn’t work if its closed, same goes with the mind. Look at your “conclusive evidence” it would not even stand in a court.. You believe McKenna spent most of his life as an undercover agent based on the fact that he smuggled hash. And you think that 5 hour lecture was for his CIA/FBI agents which is total hypocrisy.

        Frankly I read everything you cited and you have no legitimate evidence. For your own sake I hope you admit how weak your argument is. That’s why the previous commenters attacked you, but I do enjoy most of you’re work so no hard feelings brother.

        One love

        • July 14, 2014 at 9:10 am

          Rather than name calling and appealing to magic and etc, study his background and look at the facts. No ideology – yada yada, as if that has anything to do with the facts. Yes, I get that he’s your religion and you want to believe (lord Jesus!), but them’s aren’t the facts. Parachute, blah blah… what does that have to do with the facts? Most of the McKenna audio out there today came from me. Rather than making pathetic attempts at name calling and attacking us, look at the facts.

          Perspectives worth sharing? Really? Have you even read his books? They’re mostly about how thinking is bad, and do drugs… his theories are almost entirely disproved.

          My conclusive evidence wouldn’t stand in court? Really? Have you studied the trivium? It’s his own admission, and again, study his background – and the quotes are from his own books – it’s all primary evidence.

          Esalen, for your information, is entirely intelligence, where the presentation was given, and you want us to believe that just his lecture wasn’t… that’s pretty silly. Look, we get that you have cognitive disonance and you want to believe that you weren’t fooled, so it’s easier to come here and appeal to magic and make up stuff about open minds and other comments to avoid the facts, but it gets you no where.

          No legitimate evidence? Really? Do you know what primary documentation is?

          By the way, here are the official uses of the mushrooms by the mazatec, and no aliens or recruiting for the mushrooms are listed:

          The natives told us of other wonders within the power of the mushroom: 1) if a young wife vanishes, the mushroom tells in a vision where she is; 2) if money has disappeared from a secret place, the mushroom reveals who has it and where it is; 3) if the burro has disappeared, the mushrooms says whether he is stolen and toward what market he is being driven for sale, or else whether it has fallen into a barranca where he lies with a broken leg; 4) if a boy in the family has gone away into the world, perhaps to the States, the mushroom will bring news of him. The Indians are agreed on these matters.

          I don’t see “deep background,” or “public relations,” or even spirituality listed. So why make it up? Maria Sabina said of those who sold them as “spiritual”:

          For a time there came young people of one and the other sex, long-haired, with strange clothes. They wore shirts of many colors and used necklaces. A lot came. Some of these young people sought me out for me to stay up with the Little-One-Who-Springs-Forth. “We come in search of God,” they said. It was difficult for me to explain to them that the vigils weren’t done from the simple desire to find God, but were done with the sole purpose of curing the sickness that our people suffer from.
          ~ Maria Sabina

          Do you see deep background and public relations positions listed for the mushrooms?

          So why lie and just make things up?

          Have you considered that these ideas were sold to you in a state of hyper-suggestibility by guys like McKenna?

          It’s NO PLACE to be found in the official record, much less recruiting for UFOs or anything else, which you’ve provided ZERO evidence for. And if you’re going to make an argument for unicorns, you’d better have evidence that they exist and not talk about what would stand in court while you appeal to magic and unicorns and parachutes. Have you considered that you’re not open minded, coming here to name call and refusing the look at the primary evidence? How are you being open minded? Does open minded mean we accept any bit of unfounded, unsupported crap that comes along? Like aliens and UFOs, etc, and does it further mean that we should ignore someone’s own words about the FBI arrest from their own books and recordings? Why is that? Is that being open minded? Or is that ignor-ance…

          What part of the FBI chase from his own book don’t you understand? How does the evidence presented not stand when they’re quoted from his own mouth and the lecture from a known CIA organization?

          I hope for your own mental health, you realize that you were duped and study the rest of the work on this website regarding his background, and the database, and the other articles, and don’t appeal to magic and unicorns when you feel threatened. One love, haha… why is it hippies always name call and then pretend it’s love? Grow up.

  48. Omaraven Hurst
    July 9, 2014 at 6:10 am

    Entertaining if repetitive. Reminds me of what I see when out of boredom ‘after completion’ I’ve made the occasional foray into watching what’s happening in ‘Paul Is Dead’ world. As per this thread, you get someone starting it off by making a ‘connection’ or, building upon previous connections to which a lot of people are already connected, keeps them connected by adding a further connection. Kind of like an infection which repels the healthy and strong who call ‘Next twuntsite, please’ (which is what brings me here) and seeks to entrap the weak-minded, providing for them a nice safe environment with a leadership ‘that knows what he’s talking about, he’s really done his homework here’ (“Hello L Ron”) and with exhausting the persistent naysayers, brings in THE NEW AGENDA.

    The new agenda is, of course, the old one flipped. Dualists rarely have any inspiration and redneck philosophy seeks only a return of ‘manly’ values like conscription and racial supremacy.

    BUT I’M NOT SAYING THAT’S GM’s AGENDA

    Honest, I’m not.

    I’m just asking if the CIA’s coke is better than the mushrooms.

    • July 9, 2014 at 10:42 am

      How about trying to read the citations, rather than going off into cocaine and lala land?

  49. chris neglia
    September 23, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    Sorry this is an epic necropost to this thread, but I just wanted to chime in on this fascinating debate. I wanted to say that it was irrelevant whether he was an intelligence agent or not–because we all were inspired by Terence to truly think differently. We also got an alternative history lesson and a few recipes and tips for travelling. I think it’s been time well spent.

    I’ve listened to nearly everything by Terence in the youtube archive; read all his books; listened to some of his brother’s lectures. I *do* think it is odd that he suddenly he was able to return to Berkeley, although I always read this as the 5-yr statute of limitations for drug smuggling / conspiracy had expired and he was allowed to return to the US thereafter. What does the timeline look like?

    Did he spend 5 yrs in Asia? If so, he might have been actually referring to his mushroom psychopomp he refers to many times ‘the mushroom said…’. And all of the traits of an intelligence agency could be applicable to a network of mushroom intelligences–especially considering that networks are the native organizational format *of* the mushroom (mycelial networks)–its not that far-fetched actually.

    Of course, the bias of thinking that mushrooms could talk to you is nonsense is pervasive in a culture of people who haven’t travelled so far in hyperspace to realize how very f*cking strange reality actually is, upon return from flight. Carlos Castaneda’s, Huxley’s, Leary’s, McKenna’s hallucination stories only scratch the surface of one’s own firsthand experience.

    Finally, I want to say, in light of the possibility of the expired statute of limitations hypothesis, it’s possible that Terence Mckenna was simply giving us a riddle to solve in the future, however posthumously: perhaps he was challenging us in the Hermetic Tradition of always being aware of half-truths, always doubting, because–as you may recall–his bit on Thomas the Doubter, ” be very careful with where you commit your belief, keep your eyes open, stay smart, take it easy…”

  50. opiatus croaker
    August 26, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    Jan, well aware of my liberal use of ad hominem in this thread. It’s all you deserve if you willfully persist in weasling out of very fair, straight questions. You dishonest, slimy cunt.

  51. Jan Irvin
    August 27, 2013 at 10:26 am

    I’ve answered every one of your questions. You just lack the critical thinking, as others have already pointed out to you. Hence you’re constant name calling. You can’t think through the facts presented and your insecurity requires you to name call in order to feel intelligent.

  52. david llewellyn foster
    November 3, 2013 at 7:23 am

    It is sometimes worth analyzing terms of abuse. Dishonest must imply being deliberately deceptive or possibly self-deceived. Not too sure that accusation stands up to great scrutiny, as I usually find Jan scrupulous in his attention to detail. Also, how can a cunt be dishonest? In my modest experience, I’ve found female genitalia to be as honest as it comes…

    Slimy is a charming word, Lewis Caroll obviously liked it and adapted it in a portmanteau sense in his poem Jabberwocky… http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/jabberwocky.html

    Slime-molds (qv Narby, Stamets) have been shown to be extremely clever. Slug-slime is a quite remarkable substance & snail-trails are used as a cosmetic aid, in Japan especially.

    I dare say most everyone on this page knows something about esoteric toad slime.

    Cunt is a wonderful word, its origins are very ancient http://www.vdaysouthbay.org/originsofcunt.htm

    In Sanskrit evidently the meaning of “Kunti” is “Lover of the Sun God” http://www.answers.com/topic/kunti

    So, whether intended as abuse or endearment, it is always worth thinking about what we really mean.

  53. elly dozer
    September 3, 2013 at 4:16 am

    croaker= fail
    end of topic

  54. Ridiculous Suolucidir
    August 17, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    I agree with croaker when he says that this quote doesn’t prove anything. However, I have no idea what the truth is in this manner.

  55. August 17, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    Thanks. The quote is primary evidence from his own mouth and coincides with his own discussion of the matter in his own book, and coincides with the lecture being given at Esalen. Thanks for your note.

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