Aired November 15-16 2016. Long time psychedelic insider Robert Forte joins Joe Atwill and Jan Irvin to discuss Jan and Joe's research into MKULTRA and the Counterculture. Bob Forte was the last to interview, R. Gordon Wasson, Mirca Eliade, and others, and has played an intricate roll within the psychedelic community.
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I know that in French, the word “mysticisme” means trickery. For example, in the prose Edda, the main myth is called “Gylfaginning” (« la mystification de Gylfi), and in English it is : “Tricking Gylfi”.
Guys, PLEASE, allow your guest to respond! We already know your perspective. Let your guest present his perspective and finish his thought. Is this a monologue or a dialogue? It’s painful to listen to you both constantly interrupt.
This was gonna be great. Finally someone with a divergent opinion came on to debate. A real shame you mucked it up Jan by interrupting and shouting all over him. Even when Joe tried to reign you in, you can’t help yourself. Try and control this impulse or no-one is going to rise to your challenge to come on the show and debate – which I’m sure many would like to hear. Is this the new American style? whoever shouts the loudest, whackiest claims wins?
I didn’t muck it up, Jerms… he had already admitted in many private conversations that the points he raised were wrong.. weeks ago he admitted he knew Leary’s prison escape was faked, his Leary went Rogue stuff is old and erroneous and unsupportable, so then why use it here for his position? I’m not going to allow someone to lie on my show when they’ve already conceded those very points they’re trying to use. Sometimes you just have to call bullshit out for what it is. And if you need a “divergent” opinion, there’s 100 other shows selling MKULTRA for you already. Facts are facts. We don’t need to “diverge” from them just because it sounds groovy. Check the citations. That’s why I had to stop him. I knew he was spinning. This show is called “UnSpun”, not Spin, not Counterspin, but UnSpun. My job is to make sure the truth is being presented. Bob full well knew all of this material before hand and tried to use it anyway.
Fair enough. Then let him dig his hole. But you didn’t, you kept interrupting loudly before he finished his point. If he’s lying then at least let him tell his lies and then take them apart and expose them. But you didn’t. At one point you interrupted him to point out that that’s you in the photo at Leary’s place, just so we know, for disclosure… and the thing about you not having a ‘spiritual experience’ until you met leary and dennis mck… I still don’t get that… are you saying that although you were aware of the whole ‘psychedelic/entheogen’ nomenclature, this didn’t have an influence over your experiments with these substances. But on the night that you met these characters you did have a ‘spiritual’ experience because somehow their presence precipitated this? how did that happen? what did they do/say to you to cause this?
I’m not attacking the content of what you’re saying in these interviews, only the delivery. If someone’s going to come on the show then let them say their piece. If your research is to hold water then it must be tested. A divergent opinion should be welcomed as a means of refining the data.
Cringeworthy. I don’t know how else to put it. I appreciate you mixing on the fly to get his mic level even with you guys… but it mysteriously drops to a very low decibel even though he’s the same distance from the mic as before towards the end.
He had his mic on auto adjust. .. always a bad idea.
I have to agree Jerms and Darren. Beofore even listening to the episode, and given the background of this guy, he was already suspect. Now that the information Gnostic Media presents is gaining more and more of an Internet presence, I would assume that this guy would be acting as some kind of “damage control” for the whole operation perhaps. I wanted to hear what he would say and how he would say it. For more loyal listeners, knowing what we know, it would’ve been great to see what this guys spin tactics would’ve have been if he was given a chance to fully implement them. Just so we can get a sense of how it’s done and what to look for when it’s happening. The casual listener to the show, will either fall for Roberts spin, or be turned off by the constant interruption by Jan. It would be a lose lose situation for them anyway.
i thought this guest was a celebrity, doesn’t even have a wiki…
but his academic bio wasn’t difficult to goog.:
this part was interesting:
” I have been observing, writing, and speaking about what I call The Psychology of Non Perception, the title of a work in progress, which is an analysis of the strategies of
denial,
ignorance,
and repression concerning (especially) the events of September 11, 2001 in New York and Washington DC. This work draws heavily on the observations of Solomon Asch, Erich Fromm, Theodor Adorno and others. Asch, especially, a social psychologist, and refugee of Nazism, observed
an appallingly large percentage of his experimental subjects preferred a socially constructed reality to a true one, even when that true one presents itself unambiguously to the senses.
I am also interested in the psychology of peak performance in athletics and creativity.”
i think that if he’s trying to maintain a socially constructed pseudo-reality, as Jan implies, he’s quite good at it. Rob’s gentle demeanor definitly highlights the “torch and pitchfork” demeanor of Jan’s attack. and in the psychedelic social construct, torch and pitchforks are definitly not cool… lol . we all know who the masses would rather trust. public relations is all about creating a sense of community and winning at these disagreements is more often a matter of emotional superiority. moreso than being intellectually superior with facts. also this part of his bio is interesting: ” Since 1981 I have also focused on the use and abuse of entheogens, or psychedelic plants and drugs. In the spring of 2009 I began to look into ayahuasca, a pan-Amazonian entheogen, especially interested in its curative effects on cancer patients, in Peru. A second major area of interest, since September 11, 2001, is in the psychology of political awareness and in the social psychology of authoritarianism, the authoritarian personality, and the rise of fascism in the United States and around the world. ” the guy is so cool and smooth, and respectful, he’s makes you seem like, fascist, in your own interview. and that’s like, not like, cool, man.
most respectful conspiracy theorists distance themselves from 911-was-an-inside-job-truthers, because to be uncool is to be unaffective, whether you’re spreading propaganda or countering….
so it’s so easy to maintain the social construct reality, which most would rather follow.
it’s like the classic experiment 2 lines experiment, with the planted actors misleading the 75% into mistakingly believing the shorter line to be the longer line…. 25% of the subjects tended to be immune to this peer pressure, but 75% will consistently fall for the socially constructed false reality, of seeing the shorter line as the longer one…. authoritarian personality complex theory applications, maybe?
good effort Joe, at trying to maintain decency. lol also good effort Jan. but, maybe you should have smoked a bowl before this interview or something. man.
i’ve begun to notice the cool-washing of mk-ultra of late. ewan cameron as a hero, etc. knowing the officially published narrative is a fashionable thing: gordon wassen is a hero worthy of worship. leary too….. countercultural heroes…. only this pitchfork and torch conspiracy site would deny us the heroism of these established idols , the incomplete pyramids with the all seeing eyes, all innocent good fun endorsed by highly paid musicians and other celebrity. in a room full of plants with just a lone subject unkowingly peer pressured by actors ,reality is: the shorter line is actually the longer one. only the crazy ‘noided fundamentalist loner would disagree, and few can tolerate the alienation to want to stand alone…. keep on rocking in the free world!
in case there are any cool psychonautical ladies reading this, i’m actually a really cool psyopnaut too. i’m not a conspiracy theorist, i’m cooler than Joe atwill because i’m cool with J.C. and organized sp[irituality….. and i’ve taken lsd more times than i can count and am proud of it! teonanacatl LGBT suicide girls and smoking blunts for life. i bet i can smoke jan irvin under the table when it comes to salvia-dmt-laced joints.. conspiracy theorists aren’t cool and probably can’t handle the heroic doses of psilypsyop cubenses promoted by T mck and other cool celeb mycophiles. Joe and Jan should figure out how to be more cool, like Joe Rogan, lol. people like me are interested in hearing out these cool guests. power to the people stick it to the man!
I finally had to turn the podcast off. Geez let the guy talk. This wasn’t an interview. I’m sorry but this has been bothering me for months. I like you guys and can get information here that’s not found anywhere else but Jan’s voice drives me crazy — everything about it. His tone, how deeply it’s modulated, the arrogant way it comes across. He needs to take lessons on interviewing. I know he thought he was standing up for truth but it came across as a self=righteous self-serving and an extremely annoying diatribe. The show I liked best is when Joe did all the talking and Jan ran the audio and video. I listen to tons of podcasts but am going to cool it on this one unless something changes in the tenor and modulation of his voice. I’m sure he’s a great person and a great researcher but truly and sincerely you need to do something about how he comes across.
It sounds like you need to study logic and critical thinking. I’d focus on the (circumstantial) ad hominem.