Will Durant – “The Story of Philosophy – Plato”

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This is the audio version of Chapter 01 from Will Durants Story of Philosophy – Plato. Understanding Plato is essential to understanding current social programs, eugenics, vegetarianism, and how they operate and how they’re geared toward an elitist utopia.

Links:
WillDurant.com

Order:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Story-Philosophy-Opinions-Philosophers/dp/0671739166

WikiPedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Durant
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  46 comments for “Will Durant – “The Story of Philosophy – Plato”

  1. Ja
    October 3, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Thanx Jan… I’m a proponent of Durant’s “Story of Civilization” series and other works. I also think his romance with Ms. Ariel is a love story for the ages..

    • Larry Speck
      October 18, 2012 at 11:14 pm

      what is that love story? From wikipedia it seems like he was a 26 year old teacher and she was his 13 year old student? Is this accurate? Sounds more gross than romantic.

  2. lee soarez
    October 3, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    Thanx, Jan!

  3. Ryan Caron
    October 3, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    It really is incredible how similar Plato’s view in the republic directly mirrors our own political system. Democracy was actually seen as one of those worst political systems because it was seen as a system with infinite vectors of desire where everyone seemingly wanted something else. If anyone wants to see the exact method that the elite are using today they really need to read The Republic.

  4. robert42
    October 4, 2012 at 6:02 am

    I hadn’t heard any of his Story of Philosophy series. That audio is very concentrated and merits a relisten or two, accompanied by note-taking.

  5. mmaaaxx
    October 4, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Wow, thank you so much for posting this. What incredible writing and reading of it! Also loved the connection with some of the other topics you have been discussing (particularly the creation of Christianity by the Flavians). It makes sense that the Flavians would certainly have read Plato’s republic and would have learned Plato’s opinion that the masses of people need religion to maintain social stability even if the leaders do not believe the story!

    thanks for keeping my mind open–

    • October 18, 2012 at 11:27 pm

      Not exactly. I think Atwill is a scholar and he has done some excellent research, however, the influence of Plato is misunderstood by other lesser scholars in the conspiracy game.

      Elites rule by keeping the masses controlled by religion. This part Atwill, Jan Irvin and most of you are very much aware of.

      The part that is not known or understood id the other half of the conspiracy. Elites keep the intellectual class under control through materialism and reductionism. Keeping intellectuals materialistic and reductionist keeps them from realizing the power of conceptual thinking (which is captured in Pythagoreanism and Platonism). So Plato is actually the very thing that can liberate the intellectual class from their chains.

      The political measures (rule by philosopher kings based on merit, dissolution of the family, social design, eugenics) found in the Republic are a complex mixture of some things elites want and some things they do not want. They may agree with Plato on Eugenics but they do not want, for example, tests on the intellectual abilities of their rulers (meritocracy or technocracy). Not all conspirators are bad, but rather an incredibly complex mixture of intentions and ideals….too complex to explain here…

      I advise you all to read as much Plato directly as possible. Secondary sources like Durant color Plato using only modern palettes when the original is vastly more spectacular…

      • Jan Irvin
        October 19, 2012 at 10:25 am

        There is FAR more to control than just religion. Maybe you should hear all of my interviews with Atwill where we discuss the many methods of mind control, as well as my video from the Free Your Mind conference. Democracy is another way that the elites control the masses, as is fallacies, Marketing, etc, as per Edward Bernays. There are many methods of mind control. Please don’t put words in mine or Atwill’s mouth. Keeping intellectuals in control is just another matter of lack of proper critical thinking skills – such as the trivium and quadrivium and understanding how dialectics work.

        You’re deluding yourself if you think Plato’s liberating anyone. He’s selling an elitist utopia. Listen to the talk before you post again. Thanks.

  6. Danilo
    October 4, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Hey Jan. Is there a specific translation of Plato’s Republic that you recommend? Thanks!

    • Stephen
      October 4, 2012 at 7:44 pm

      I’ve read it a few times. Different translations. They seemed mostly similar. The older English versions, like Cornford are pretty good. There are a few good audios on it out there as well. And Some good ttc courses on Plato, Aristotle and philosophy. Reading different translations is good, but reading books and articles about it, like this Durant piece, help quite a lot.

      Reading it in the original Greek, like all of those elitists did, would be interesting…

    • Stephen
      October 4, 2012 at 7:46 pm

      I meant to say also, there are good audio versions of it out there. The dialogues make great audio books.

    • Ryan Caron
      October 5, 2012 at 2:27 am

      John M. Cooper is the best translation

      http://www.amazon.com/Plato-Complete-Works/dp/0872203492

    • Henk Schafer
      October 5, 2012 at 12:07 pm

      I am reading the PDF version I found below:

      http://www.idph.com.br/conteudos/ebooks/republic.pdf

    • October 23, 2012 at 9:17 pm

      I have made my way through several and the Jowett translation is the most over exposed. For best results mix a literal one like Henry Cary’s version in the Bohn’s classic library which is on google books (all 6 or 7 volume) and mix this with an interpretted translation by Thomas Taylor. The mix of these two very different translations is ideal for studying any Plato text in English in my opinion.

  7. Bruce
    October 5, 2012 at 6:32 am

    Where is the evidence for this alleged “Vegetarianism” conspiracy? I’ve heard the past podcasts about nutrition, wheat, etc etc. no need refer me to that. Sure it looks shocking in print, but this theory is contrary to evidence in the real world. Vegetarianism is far from the norm even today, only about 5-6% in the US ( I’m not vegetarian btw) . If anything there’s an effort by the Beef Council and junk food and fast food corporations to encourage people to consume mass amounts of meat products, pushed further by Soy and Corn industries who feed their waste to the cattle. The corporate/capitalist reasons for pushing meat on the public are far more obvious and actual than some notion of a Eugenically-inspired vegetarian diet.

    • Jan Irvin
      October 5, 2012 at 2:57 pm

      Hi Bruce, see Sally Fallon, as has often been referred. You can also read it directly in Plato. Furthermore, so that you can see how the China Study, etc, has been utterly refuted, I suggest you read everything on this website: http://www.rawfoodsos.com

      As I have many times provided the evidence – evidence in the real world is fact check-able. What evidence do you have? The evidence that you proclaim is destroyed line by line in the below video – and at Rawfoodssos.com

      The beef council and junk food (which is a red herring) are irrelevant here to the facts of the matter – had you studied it.

      We’re talking about the Westin A Price foundation and whole foods, grass fed beef, etc, not factory farms. Thank you.

      If you had heard my two interviews with Sally, and watched her video, you wouldn’t be asking where the evidence is. And since I’ve referred to her on probably 40 shows, I’m a bit shocked that you’ve not caught up with that. Pushing meat… where, anywhere, is the MSM et al, pushing meat. The entire medical industry, et al, has been pushing low fat, high grain diet for decades.

      Let’s get with that evidence in the real world. Things that we can verify – not just your unsupported suppositions. Please apply the trivium. Thanks.

      Ask no further where that evidence is that’s been here on this website for years. And posted in many threads. Again, read the above link and watch the video and hear her interviews show how this work is wrong – point by point. You’ve provided zero evidence, so of course your argument is dismissed.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8

      • Bruce
        October 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm

        Maybe you didn’t understand me. You haven’t proven anything that a reasonable person would call an effort under some Eugenics type program to make people vegetarians. All you’ve provided is information that animal fats are not unhealthy and may be more healthy than avoiding them, which I’m not even contesting.
        And The beef council and junk food is not a red herring. It’s a case in point of what actually IS being forced down our throats.
        You think I provided no evidence? Open a magazine,look at a billboard, watch TV.. Meat is heavily promoted, it’s all around you, any 5 year old can see that. Hot dogs, hamburgers,and bacon that’s what they want to sell people. It’s the largest section of the food pyramid! And who created that? The USDA. So where’s the evil vegetarian conspiracy to make us all weak and unhealthy? If that’s someone’s agenda they’re doing a poor job. So what if some doctors have pointed out that vegetables are good for you?
        And lastly it’s not my job to prove this agenda doesn’t exist, it’s your job to prove it DOES, and you haven’t.
        Adios and have a nice day. (Thanks for posting this Will Durant talk btw.)

      • October 23, 2012 at 9:18 pm

        Jan, you are missing the important fact that Plato was based on Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans were vegetarians. They didn’t harm any creatures…Pythagoras might have gotten this from his travels in India but this is all lost to the murkiness of history.

  8. Greater Nowheres
    October 5, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Fantastic post, Jan. I cannot thank you enough for presenting this. The desire of the controllers and philosophical elite to create “models” and spread narratives to bring them about is, in my view, one of the most important aspects of understanding how this world works.

  9. Colm
    October 5, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Y’all know that image is Socrates, right?

    • Jan Irvin
      October 5, 2012 at 2:59 pm

      Indeed, thanks for the correction!

  10. October 6, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOrvGDRLT7A This lecture by Dr. Barlett proves logarithmic math is destroying the planet. My own research proves Plato promoted Archytas’ creation of the irrational number continuum from music theory — this was used for catapult technology. Mathematician Luigi Borzacchini has corroborated my math — and has also proven the secret music origin of what Borzacchini called the “pre-established deep disharmony” of Western syntax and logic tied to logarithmic math. Luigi Borzacchini’s Home Page
    http://www.dm.uniba.it/~psiche/ Jan 23, 2012 – by Luigi Borzacchini (Dept. of Mathematics, University of Bari, Italy) …
    “we can maybe reveal the deep ‘preestablished disharmony’ of the link …Our science, with its modernity and technology, shows in the ruptures of its paradoxes and limits of formal knowledge its very ancient ‘roots’, deeply embedded in the hearth of old Greek culture. The syntactic paradigm was the result of the Platonic and Aristotelian foundation, and developed its ‘strong’ form at the beginning of the XX century science.

    In this framework modern science achieved its greatest breakthroughs: quantum mechanics, formal logic and computer science. All of them, however, can not avoid the occurrences of the never ending paradox connected to the syntactic paradigm. Below the surface of the antinomical form, we can maybe reveal the deep ‘preestablished disharmony’ of the link between human knowledge and reality.”

    • tOM
      October 8, 2012 at 4:24 am

      logic and reason is not enough, we need the mushroom, or something like it, to see through the paradox.

      • Jan Irvin
        October 8, 2012 at 8:57 am

        I think this has been repeatedly covered in detail. This is a talk on Plato. Try not to confuse things. Thanks.

        • tOM
          October 8, 2012 at 10:48 am

          “….it is clear to me where Plato found his “Ideas”; it was clear to those
          who were initiated into the Mysteries among his contemporaries too, Plato
          had drunk the potion in the Temple of Eleusis and had spent the night
          seeing the great Vision….”

          R. Gordon Wasson, The Road to Eleusis.

          • Jan Irvin
            October 8, 2012 at 11:15 am

            Thanks. What’s the page number for that?

          • tOM
            October 8, 2012 at 11:44 am
          • Jan Irvin
            October 8, 2012 at 1:13 pm

            well I was asking for the page number. I’ve got the book. Never mind.

          • October 18, 2012 at 11:30 pm

            Well, sure Wasson, but being initiated into the Egyptian mysteries and plagarizing much of the Pythagoreans also helped…in addition to the mystical experiences…

            So Wasson was only partly correct…

  11. tOM
    October 8, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    sometimes you are a bad tempered cunt
    like me not everyone reading this will have
    the book so the link and the site are useful
    FU

    • Jan Irvin
      October 8, 2012 at 1:42 pm

      So because I clearly asked for the page number “Thanks. What’s the page number for that?” and you provided a pirated copy to the entire book and linked it to MY website instead, now you need to resort to ad hominems that I’m a cunt? Incredible. take off.

    • Greater Nowheres
      October 8, 2012 at 10:46 pm

      I find it odd that of all of the people commenting here, it’s the “mushrooms will save humanity” types who seem to have an aversion to maintaining their dignity and integrity. I’m not sure they are aware of how their words look to people outside of their demographic, but let me assure all of you, it ain’t good.

      Just reading this made me feel guilty, and I’m not sure exactly why. I guess that when I come across this kind of situation where someone is intentionally misunderstanding something just to bring about a confrontation, my hope for humanity takes a punch to the gut.

      I feel for you, Jan. You’re a good dude. And I really hate to see this kind of bullshit.

      If there is any better evidence for mankind becoming reacquainted with their humanity NOT being rooted in just taking psychedelics, I think it lies in the comments left by those whose feathers you’ve ruffled. So bravo, Jan. Keep up the great work.

  12. Greater Nowheres
    October 8, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    I found an interesting article about Plato on David Livingstone’s site while reading about the roots of alchemy for something that came up in the comments section of your latest show.

    The part I found particularly intriguing was this tidbit:

    “The subject of Persian or Babylonian influences had been a contentious one in the earlier part of the twentieth century. The subject currently continues to receive attention from several leading scholars, including Walter Burkert, and M.L. West.

    On the whole, however, the idea has yet to penetrate into mainstream circles, because of a xenophobia which insists on the unique “genius” of the Greeks.

    The most detailed examination of the matter had been conducted by the greatest of the last century’s scholars, Franz Cumont. His work, Les Mages Hellenisees, or the Hellenized Magi, a compendium of ancient sources on the subject, has received little attention in the English world, due to the fact that it has not been translated. This continues to mar criticism of his theories, as most critics have not read the brunt of his work.

    Scholars have usually dismissed the possibility of Persian influence in Greece, because of the lack of similarity between Zoroastrian and Greek ideas.

    However, what these scholars have failed to see, as Cumont has pointed out, is that those Magi the Greeks came into contact with were not orthodox, but heretics. The only way to reconstruct their doctrines is by accumulating the numerous remnants of comments about them in the ancient sources.

    By reconstructing these pieces, we find that Magian doctrines are far removed from, or even inimical, to orthodox Zoroastrian ones.

    Cumont discovered that these Magi practiced a combination of harsh dualism with elements of Babylonian astrology and magic, which composed a Zoroastrian heresy known as Zurvanism. It is in this strange recomposition of ideas that we find the first elements that characterized Greek philosophy.

    Another component which Cumont failed to identify though, was that of Jewish influence. The Magi cult of astrology and magic emerged in Babylon in the sixth century, precisely that era during which a great and prominent part of the Jewish population was there in exile. We cannot ascertain who was responsible for the introduction of these ideas, but the Bible itself identifies Daniel with one of the “wisemen”. Whatever the case may be, these ideas do appear in a recognizable Magian form initially among the Essenes, and more particularly in Merkabah mysticism, which scholars identify as the beginnings of the Kabbalah.

    There is little to examine the character of Jewish literature prior to the third century BC. Before that, it is in Greece were we find the elaboration of these ideas.”

    “Plato the Kabbalist”

    http://www.thedyinggod.com/node/105

  13. October 18, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    Put yourself into Plato’s shoes in the 4th Century BCE. What was the paragon of political perfection? Egypt of course, which was ancient even to Plato. Egypt was ruled by philosopher kings of a sort. The priest-class was said to have had tremendous influence over the Pharaohs. Who was the Pharaoh, but the highest of the philosopher/priests (a god even perhaps to them). It is my belief that Plato’s ideal state was based on Egypt. Several times during the Platonic works, references to Egypt are made and all paint the ancient kingdom in the light of a wise and mature state. As he writes in the Timaeus from the Egyptian perspective, “You Hellenes are ever children”. Keep in mind that Egypt had been around for thousands when Plato was writing this. A remarkable feat for any culture. And even more remarkable was the fact that Egypt remained conservative and traditional throughout this time. Egypt was the place to go for learning and spiritual initiation. Plato must have believed that Egypt’s longevity was because of their love of wisdom (Greek: philosophos). Alexander the Great choose Egypt as the location for Alexandria for good reason.

    Plato was said to have visited Egypt seeking knowledge [McEvoy, James (1984). "Plato and The Wisdom of Egypt" Irish Philosophical Journal (Belfast: Dept. of Scholastic Philosophy, Queen's University of Belfast) ] and then returned to Athens many years before writing the Republic. So you can imagine a critical view of the Athenian democracy (that voted to execute Socrates).

    In Jasnow and Zauzich’s The Ancient Egyptian Book of Thoth (Otto Harrasswitz GmbH&Co. KG Wiesbaden 2005),“The-one-who-loves-knowledge” and Thoth (the god of learning and writing) engage in a dialogue. In fact the entire work is a dialogue. To me that sounds very familiar. This is one of many examples of possible arguments for the Egyptian influence on Plato. This “Book of Thoth” is argued by Jasnow and Zauzich to be the legendary Book that played a role in initiating the highest scribe/priests into what they refer to as “mysteries”. Their lengthy introduction argues this point. They even mention the striking parallels with the Greek “philosophos” but do not make any parallels to Plato specifically.

    When you look at the sections of the Republic that are so unappealing to the modern American political taste, I encourage you to keep an open mind in this light. Plato’s goal was the development of philosophy. He saw it achieved to quite an extent in Egypt. I feel that when we try-as Popper did-to apply our zeitgeist on to The Republic we are misunderstanding Plato’s goal.

    All of the above is very much my opinion (and it is highly debated), but it’s one based on years of studying Egypt and Plato. Which is what you asked for. I also do not think that a philosopher-king/queen (beneficent dictator) could exist today because there is no philosophical infrastructure to guide this king that would result in the longevity that Egypt proved. Unlike philosophy today, Egyptian philosphy must have been far more homogenous as well as popular and effective and perhaps even very wise. Unfortunatley, almost all research into these areas is highly speculative due to the lack of historical documents, but after many years of study you can feel some confidence in your opinions, so i encourage you to explore these topics for the answer.
    Check out a paper by a paper by Dr. Greg Moses titled By the Dog of Egypt! (1996, Presented at SUNY-Binghamtom) which is in a pre-publication form on the professor’s personal website. “By the dog of Egypt!” is a quote from Socrates in The Republic meaning to swear by the (jackal-headed) Egyptian god of judgment, Anubis.

    I was not aware of this paper, but he seems to have made a lot of the same points I did. Of particular interest are these three points that Guy Schultz correctly abstracts from Plato’s ideal state:
    1. “philosopher-kings rule the docile masses”
    2. “a warrior class stands on guard”
    3. “and poets have been banished lest they corrupt the warrior class…”

    I would like to use Guy Schultz’s (3) points above to stengthen my Egyptian thesis especially where Dr. Moses’s paper specifically connects (2) and (3) to Egypt like so:
    1. I have already connected this to Egypt, but it’s interesting that Dr. Charles Finch in his paper Still Out of Africa (1996) echoes my claim that the philospher-king of The Republic is based on the pharoah.
    2. Dr. Moses cites how in the Timeaus, the Egyptian priest explains to Solon how the Egyptian society is divided into castes [quoting Plato]: “’In the first place, there is the caste of priests, which is separated from all the others; …[other castes listed out]… and you will observe, too, that the warriors in Egypt are distinct from all the other classes, and are commanded by the law to devote themselves solely to military pursuits.’”
    3. Dr. Moses cites how in Plato’s Laws, the poets and musicians of Athens have complete freedom to compose however they like, which leads to an art (poetry, music, paintig, etc.) that is not based on truth and virtue (thus defeating the very purpose of art to Plato). Instead, Plato paints the art of Egypt as being both lawfull and as immutable over millenia. It is not allowed to deteriorate. Plato paints ideal art (based on true principles) as a social good, but lawless art as one of the greatest social ills. Again, Egypt seems to be the origin of Plato’s aestetchics. Cited by Dr. Moses, Plato’s Laws explains that the Egyptians could not teach their young the advanced principles of their highest virtues and metaphysics directly so they made a fun form of play of them which was their music, poetry and art. This art, which had been th same for millenia taught them the patterns of virtue without them even knowing it. So the poetry, music and art of Egypt served as one’s earliest spiritual and philosphical development, in fun and graspable vehicle. [I’m reminded of Leibniz’s notion that music is the mind’s way of counting without knowing it.]

    Both Dr. Moses and Dr. Finch were responding to Dr. Mary Lefkowitz’s arguments against Egyptian influence on Plato and, more generally, on the roots of Western Civilization.

    Dr. Moses also describes some Platonic passages critical of Egypt as being ironic. This is a common quality of Plato’s complex writing style and all the more reason to avoid any hasty judgements of his dialogues. We should expect irony from the same author who offers the theory of forms in the Timeaus and offers the excellent attack on this same theory in the Parmenides [and it’s been debated which work was written first].
    In defense of the open society, just because something is Egyptian does not make it right or best. I certainly do enjoy and defend intellectual and artistic freedom. But I must admit that it seems odd how “progress” in western philosophy, art and science has been marked by tearing down the systems of the past (postmodern philosophy, literature and painting come to mind). This is in stark contrast to Plato’s unchanging utopia which I have argued is heavily modeled after Egypt. The theme of a perfect (and therefore unchanging) soul as the model of the perfect state is a common theme in all three works (Republic, Timeaus, Laws), in a sense necessary laws versus material contigencies.

    Plato’s (often misunderstood) criticism of free (lawless?) culture is probably the best you’ll find. So one can see why Popper went after it so viciously. Egypt achieved greatness, but it was far from being an “open society”.
    As a side-note: The Republic is given so much attention, but I find Laws under-appreciated as it relates to understanding Plato’s ideal state and mature philosophy.

    I hope that gives some of you less well read in Plato the context to view the Republic. I hope you don’t make the logical fallacy of forcing modern sentiments on ancient thought…

    For example if you call Plato a communist, that is fine if you define a communist as someone who only requires public ownership or perhaps other definitions which use generalizations and universals. But to use the modern sense of ‘communist’ is a fallacy because with it is associated so many modern notions, events and philosophies from a diverse group of philosophers, economists, etc that Plato had no knowledge of in the 4th century BCE. This is the fallacy being made above by Jan and others. For example when Jan Irvin says “Plato’s republic IS communism” that implies they are one and the same. There can be nothing in communism then that is not in the republic and vice versa. But I have already demonstrated this is false from the POV that modern communism has much not in Plato. The reverse is even easier to prove: there is very much in Plato not in communism. The theory of forms that is often called “platonism” in philosophy and mathematics for example is opposed to the materialism of most communists and marxists.

    I do, however, agree that understanding history since Plato requires understanding Plato. As I have already mentioned Plato was the main vehicle to bring Egyptian and Pythagorean ideas into the modern world…

    Another logical fallacy made over and over above is confusing the form with the instances. Plato operates at the level of forms…that is concepts in general. To make the jump to particular instances like a given state or ruler goes against everything Plato says in his entire life’s work. I am afraid, however, our failed education system will not allow most people to even know what I’m talking about. The trivium won’t help either…it’s good but not complete…

    What we need are people to understand the form/idea from the instance of the idea….the abstract from the concrete and the power of abstract thinking…this is how Plato is liberating humanity….by liberating humanity from the concrete and instantiated and instead pointing towards that which is far more powerful….

    Still, the very first few seconds of this “talk” brought me back many years to memories of that time in my life when I listened to a very large percentage of Durant’s “The Story of Philosophy” audio version often while going about my daily tasks. The part on Plato all came back on the re-listen I gave it since you posted it. My problems with Duant’s book are detailed…this is why above I have it an OK score, I don’t reject it outright but have serious problems that I was only able to appreciate when I covered large portions of it…I will give you some insight into those below.

    In some ways, they are good memories because I learned a great deal and Durant’s flowery speech was enjoyable…Durant was a poet in my opinion more than a philosopher or historian. It took me a while to realize this. Poetry has the ability to makes things sound more believable and his books’ success is due to this.

    My main problem is that Durant is trying to repackage what he perceives as dry history and make it relevant to the modern zietgiest and the modern political environment. He’s trying to cherry pick (all histories are giant lies by omission..it’s the nature of the art of history!) what he thinks educated people need to know, as a executive summary, to make informed decisions about modern matters…this unfortunately colors everything to such a degree that he loses almost all contact with the actual events he was writing about. My other problem is just how executive his summary is. Even Durant admits that he is covering such a broad topic (all of human philosophy) that he is going to make a lot of mistakes. These mistakes start to become painful at some point….

    The best example of cherry picking history to make things relevant only to the modern zeitgeist is the section on Plato. 90% is dedicated to the Republic which is studied at a literal, pragmatic level. Durant himself alludes briefly to the lengthy points I make above. But doesn’t do them justice. Above, I write a several hundred line essay on why Plato was obviously talking about Egypt in the idealized state. Durant merely adds this as a one line footnote (“Plato was influenced by Egypt”)…that’s it?! Egypt was the intellectual Mecca of the ancient world which revolved around Egypt and that is all Durant has to connect it to Plato’s republic!? My post above is to fill in the gory details on this footnote and show that it’s actually a central thesis. No one has commented on that post above…as anyone even read it? Read the sources I cite? (about 9 posts up)

    I view Durant as misguided and caught up in the Voltarian-Newtonian mindset that I specifically pick apart (with many modern scholarly quotes that directly contradict Durant’s writings on Voltaire and Newton and the Enlightenment) in my video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W8fA0Z2cRE

    I am not saying, however, that it is wrong to believe there is a valid literal practical level to Plato’s Republic. Plato did advocate women’s equality with men (something Jan has attacked for some reason I don’t understand just because some feminists thousands of years later were confused), Plato did advocate statism and many of the other isms such as socialism if we use those terms as generally as possible. My point above was that we cannot use modern understandings of socialism and communism to Plato’s ancient world. Marxism is the clearest example of not fitting at all which, as I have stated, comes from the materialist end of the spectrum. Plato is on the far opposite idealist side. Every child with even a mediocre education should know that the Republic contained these things…

    Yet Plato’s massive life works are almost entirely sidestepped because Durant wanted to only focus on history which he could color with modern mentalities..he made this error over and over…The Laws, Timeaus are given a one line footnote as well..the other works not even mentioned…probably because Durant has not read them all in depth nor understood most of what he read.

    My biggest problem with Durant is his skewed image of Voltaire and the Enlightenment. Being closer to modern times, it is easier to fit into Durant’s theme of repackaging. Watch my video above and compare it to Durant’s parts on Voltaire and the Enlightenment and you will appreciate the errors he made that I am trying to correct…

    Still, the story of philosophy is not a failed work. Parts are good. I don’t regret the many hours I dedicated to it. This is why I stand by the 5/10 I gave it despite a tempation to unfairly give it a 2 or 3 out of 10.

  14. neil
    October 21, 2012 at 8:28 am

    Thanks this was fantastic(once again).I have started a little book with logic fallies taken from wiki after being inspired by the trivium material so I can learn/review a few each day.Can you recommend a lesson plan?Thanks once again.

  15. manny
    October 23, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    i used to be a vegetarian for more than ten years…i had a terrible time being a vegetarian. i had high cholesterol, i had no muscle tone (and i exercised a lot), i kept getting pimples on my back, i often felt weak in body and mind, and so on…until i decided to eat meat, tubers, and very little carbs in the morning…within a couple of weeks, i felt stronger, my muscles were getting definition, my pimples went away, and my cholesterol went down. so speaking as an ex-vegetarian, i feel that we are not meant to be vegetarians, we are still integrated with our ancestors DNA infrastructure of being hunter-gatherers.

    • Jan Irvin
      October 24, 2012 at 9:20 am

      at the health food store I go to to get my organic meat and eggs, most of the people who work there are vegetarians/vegans, and the huge majority are obese.

  16. C K
    October 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    You know, what’s really funny is that we are all dying reaching out for answers in the “pluralectic” in search of the best methods to control mankind, yet I NEVER HEAR, EVER EVER EVER, the wisdom of, and original heritage of the USA: the INDEPENDENT AGRARIAN LIFE, which is the only peaceful and sustainable way of life for mankind (and defensable, unlike tribal natives). Plato talked about how overpopulation in one valley lead to wars with people on other valleys, and this is the most important point of the entire audio, yet missed by all. Fact is, most/all other large/predatory mammals refuse to ovulate without natural abundance, but mankind breeds like a prey animal, and this has been a curse forever. Has anyone ever cared to find out how much arable land we have in this world? NO. But I have, and we are at 1000 people per sq.mi. of arable land, and the only possible outcomes are:

    1. Total, complete, and utter enslavement to a machine that take control of mankind globally.

    2. Cannibalism on a scale mankind has never witness in all of history.

    Yet, to speak of such things is to be on the side of the “evil NWO” they is trying to depopulate. THAT IS THE DUMBEST IDEA EVER! The day the world depopulates, the entire system crashes into the agrarian age or earlier. The debt-based economics demands and requires ever-increasing population to pay on the ever-increasing unpayable debts to the bankers, and the day that stops, the whole system crashes. FACT IS: the NWO/banker paradigm wants as many babies as you can produce, knowing full well they are destined to become slaves in a world where no man has land to support himself.

    I can’t believe how stupid the “alternative intellectuals” are.

  17. nick S
    February 15, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    I need to learn more about “The Myth of the Metals” it seems to have parallels with racism.

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