R.I.P. Dave McGowan Interview- “The CIA and the “Magic” of Laurel Canyon – Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream” – #186



It has come to my attention that Dave succumbed to cancer yesterday, Nov. 22, at 12:47 PM.

This episode is an interview with Dave McGowan, titled “The CIA and the “Magic” of Laurel Canyon – Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream” and is being released on Sunday, December 01, 2013. This interview with Dave was recorded today.

David McGowan was born and raised in the suburbs of Los Angeles, California, where he still resides. After graduating from UCLA in 1983 with an unused degree in psychology, he went to work in construction and now works as a general contractor. He is the proud father of three daughters and is a lifelong music fan.

Dave's website:


On Facebook:

Order Dave's books: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/reading/

Direct link to order Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream

My interview with Szou Paulekas: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/SzouPaulekas

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  54 comments for “R.I.P. Dave McGowan Interview- “The CIA and the “Magic” of Laurel Canyon – Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream” – #186

  1. Aris Gil
    December 2, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Great stuff! Man I would love to see a mind map for all the names mentioned in this episode.

  2. Justin DeArmond
    December 2, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Jan have you ever listened to the Moody Blues song Legend of a Mind? I always thought it was a cool song, more so when I learned about who Tim Leary was when I was a teen, but now after doing some research on your work, its very interesting hearing one of the British invasion bands promoting Tim Leary. I also heard somewhere that Leary went over to England to pass out LSD to the up and coming bands ie Stones Hendrix Floyd. Do you have any info on that? Not bombshell info but interesting. Take care.

  3. kieron O'Sullivan
    December 3, 2013 at 9:32 am

    I was just thinking how much I would like to investigate the Kings Of Leon as their background story is just to similar to the bands studied by Dave ?For example,there only involvement in music prior to a recording deal is Singing on Christian Tv network, no history of studying/playing/writing/recording on any musical instruments until they were offered a deal. This defies logic, why would a record company offer you a recording contract before you had even attempted to write a song or play an instrument? and apparently when the record company offered 2 of the brothers a contract to make a corporatised style boy band, they said no we are going to start a new band with 2 other relatives who also have no experience in making music. Next, they lock themselves in a make shift recording studio for a month and come out with an EP which leads to a tour with U2, the strokes and so on. (This is all there official history and is recorded in a documentary).
    I would like to note that I like the bands music and am not indicting them or implicating them in some grandiose conspiracy (not that I have a problem with conspiracies; history is competing conspiracies,I apply no derogatory denotation to a conspiracy theory) but after listening to this interview and many hours listening to Dave, Jans and numerous other researchers work on the topic………………………………………………………This is just f***ing uncanny.

    • Bastogne Cancellara
      December 3, 2013 at 5:44 pm

      Wow. Crazy. My uncle is a great musician. You name it he plays it well: guitar, bass, piano. He is a very good songwriter. He is convinced Bob Zimmerman/Dylan was a fraud. He maintains .that good songwriters don’t “rhyme” all their lyrics the way Dylan did.

      Methinks a couple of good songwriters in Nashville who realized they didn’t have the American Idol looks cut a good deal with the Followill boys.

      • kieron O'Sullivan
        December 4, 2013 at 9:30 am

        Yes, Angelo Petraglia is an early connection they made on the Nashville scene, who seems like a key guiding figure in the beginning. Also, there is a clear development of sound and technique from there beginning album to today which indicates genuine musical progression and not POW!!! here I am with my incredibly expensive, squeaky clean pop sound, pop hair and pop shoes. Although the leap from garage grungy, I haven’t washed for a month, to gilded haircuts and professional recording they had help with.

        I made some minor errors in what I wrote before; Nathan played drums when he was younger and Matt played lead guitar for a while. Also, other information (I watched the documentary again) they had never heard rock n roll music until they just before being offered the deal.

        OK I’ll stop belaboring this, Its taking up way to much of the comments board.

    • zach
      December 4, 2013 at 11:42 am

      I wouldn’t disagree, but the Kings of Leon have some genuine talent. Caleb Followill was influenced by Pearl Jam, and obviously Eddie Vedder has a similar style.

  4. Vigilius
    December 3, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Wow man, we love Dave McGowan!

    Haven’t listened yet, but you should also interview him on the subject of Serial Killers. Are they a Phoenix-style Civilian Assassination program?

  5. Bastogne Cancellara
    December 3, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    As a long time Dead, CSNY and Doors fan I initially wouldn’t let myself believe Jan and Dave. However, the more you read about and research what truly appear to be the Joe Friday “facts” the more you realize you’ve been had. All of us knew Bobby Weir was an elitist little pretty boy. I think both his natural and adopted father were in the military. I’d like to think Garcia wasn’t aware he was working for the man but nothing surprises me anymore. There was a great interview Jan did with Eustace Mullins where Mullins commented that the FED and their “muscle/mafia” at the CIA controlled EVERYTHING. What’s more magical than getting people to believe paper is money?

    It appears that those who didn’t go along with the ruse got eliminated. Marley said rasta don’t work for no CIA. We know the end result there. Lennon went off the reservation and former paratrooper James Marshall Hendrix passes in Europe similar to Morrison. If Morrison was an operative I’m betting they just killed him.

    • Bastogne Cancellara
      December 4, 2013 at 5:57 am

      It appears that the “rabbit hole” here goes deeper than I realized. Jan…isn’t Gordon Wasson tied to Cointelpro? I remember reading something that a big objective of Cointelpro was to above all keep white people and black people divided. Hence, the need to “eliminate” Marley, Hendrix, Dr. King and Medgar Evers? Really good read here:


      It’s interesting that my parent’s generation always thought of the “government” and the “mafia” as separate whereas our generation sees them as one and the same. I wonder who spent the million dollars from Jimi’s life insurance policy?????

      • Bastogne Cancellara
        December 4, 2013 at 6:55 am

        Wow. Even better read here:


        When I see BCCI in any article it usually leads to the same “bad” guy.

        I have been listening to A LOT of “new” previously “unreleased” Hendrix albums. I am staring at “People, Hell and Angels” as I write this. The second song “Somewhere” features STEPHEN STILLS on Bass. The album is AWESOME. Sure is interesting that it was unreleased. It is also dawned on me that I saw the Dead with CSN at Three Rivers Stadium. I almost wish you all hadn’t written these articles. However, it does “splain” the lack of any decent musicians and artists really making it big. I think the PTB’s that Eustace referenced realized that if they let their “genies” out of the bottle it could be quite difficult to re-cork them.

    • kieron O'Sullivan
      December 4, 2013 at 8:58 am

      There is some very interesting research done by an Author called John Potash relating to the deaths of Marley and Hendrix. His book is called:

      The FBI War on Tupac Shakur and Black Leaders: U.S. Intelligence’s Murderous Targeting of Tupac, MLK, Malcolm, Panthers, Hendrix, Marley, Rappers and Linked Ethnic Leftists.

      There is also a presentation you can watch on you tube using related search terms.

      The focus is on Tupac Shakurs career and death but the book is more a chronology of FBI, CIA, Co-Intell pro harassment, general brutality and murder towards black political leaders/movements (particularly the black panthers) . There are specific chapters for MLK, Hendrix and Marley before Tupac.

      A note for people who may not like Tupac Shakur or hip hop/rap music; don’t be put off! This is a well researched and referenced book with footnotes and bibliography for all chapters including a lot of FOIA request CIA and FBI documents. Also it gives some fascinating insight into Tupacs upbringing, family and friends before/during/after he became famous. For example his mother was the leader of the Harlem Black Panthers and his Godfather was Geronimo Pratt (high ranking member of the Panthers), both were involved in the ceasefire between LA gangs in 1992. In sum he was born into and very closely affiliated with the panthers and other black civil rights movements his whole life. He was an activist up until he came out of prison and joined Deathrow records, which was essentially an FBI front company driving the East vs West rap war and later caused his death. Also, for anyone who is interested in political assassinations this book details all above to some extent and, Tupacs assassination was just that – a CIA/FBI style hit!

      All in all John Potash’s work is just another slab of evidence supporting the very conspiratorial nature of the established order.

      Oh yeah you could get him on if you like his work, it certainly fits with all of Jan’s work.

      • Bastogne Cancellara
        December 5, 2013 at 4:23 am

        Kieron with regard to: “Also, there is a clear development of sound and technique from their beginning album to today which indicates genuine musical progression”…can’t the professional recording you reference do a lot of the work? A buddy of mine worked as an Indie musician in the mid 90’s. They got a chance to record in LA in the same room Green Day did Dookie? He said that after watching the whole engineering process of “compression” he decided to quit. Per my buddy the industry “shot the guitar” in the late 90’s and it’s been boy bands ever since. Funny you mention Tupac. The friend I referenced stated that it was the rap industry that first developed compression in the late 80’s.

        My daughter is a pretty talented songwriter. She is in the 8th grade and she has been playing guitar and piano for over 5 years. I am convinced that if you are going to make it in music these days, i.e. have longevity and a career, then you had better be known as a live act as opposed to a recording artist (she will NEVER listen to me though). I was trying to find an interview with Bruce Springsteen that I read in which he stated that the difference between him and the thousands of other guys trying to be Elvis was that “he could make his telecaster sing any song or make any sound he wanted it to sing”. Note I am not a huge Springsteen fan. I was prepared not to like him when I first went to see him live in 1984. A friend told me his live performance was incredible and she was indeed correct. I still won’t listen to any Springsteen albums or recordings but I would pay top dollar to see him live. I live in Virginia. Dave Matthews (and Widespread Panic) played our fraternity house in college. They put in LOT’s of time on the road, i.e. years, before they “made” it. A couple of my very good friends worked for the DMB “corporation” (lot’s of ironies and funny stories here but they maintain they are all good guys by and large). Both friends state that if you are a musician these days you are only making money when you are touring (T shirts and stuff like that). Work on your chops! It is really disheartening to know that the CIA/FBI/Mafia (all basically one and the same bankster ilk) were behind the Dead but Jerry could play and that really was the reason the Dead had the longevity they had. Yes it was a drug “scene” with dancing but scenes only last so long if the music sucks.

        • Bastogne Cancellara
          December 5, 2013 at 5:53 am

          Forgot to add that it is really sad what happened to the R&B/Soul/Motown sound as a result of the FBI fueled “East vs. West” Rap “war” you make reference to. The amount of talent coming out of Motown in the late 60’s and 70’s was probably just too much for the Establishment to handle hence the need to create a force for self destruction. There is a Chris Rock movie about how the whole “gangster” thing came into to being. CB40? Anyways as much as I want to disbelieve Jan he is correct in pointing out that there is an elite who are hard at work destroying the lives of middle class black and white US citizen’s. The whole “Miley Cyrus” debacle has me shaking my head. Disney reared a generation of young girls on “Hannah Montana” and now their have turned “Hannah” into Miley. The “Wrecking Ball” is going to represent the destruction of many, many young women’s lives post promiscuity if they are unlucky enough to contract venereal diseases (the odd’s are NOT in the favor of young folks playing the sexual hunger games these days). Not too mention that the boys who grew up during this same time frame are ever more tricked into more misogyny (as if there weren’t enough with internet porn). I hate to come across as uptight cause at one point I was the farthest thing from it when I was duped by the Dead.

      • el
        December 14, 2013 at 3:49 pm

        thank you

  6. el
    December 5, 2013 at 7:16 am

    So, our culture is manufactured, music being one of the last things we ever thought could be manufactured.

    Now what to do with that……?

    What about the Bloods and the Crips? east coast vs West Coast? Red lodge vs blue? HAND SIGNS? this literally was introduced with Ice T and the song “Colors”.

    Yes of course. Gangster rap is guided. And now the call from on high is that Bloods and Crips are homies now. And it’s all so random.

    Our CULTure is manufactured.

    • kieron O'Sullivan
      December 5, 2013 at 9:44 am

      “so, our culture is manufactured, music being one of the last things we ever thought could be manufactured.

      Now what to do with that……?”

      We strip out the manufacturing (using critical thinking) I.e we realise the propaganda which is embedded in almost all popular media (music, film, advertisement, news, and now even science, etc) we reject it on the basis as having no value to us, which it doesn’t, it is there to serve someone else’s purpose. The only role propaganda serves is to attach a message to our emotions, which then uses this emotional reaction to make a division within us, and then puts in whatever product, meaning , cause, response, solution etc that the propagandist desires.

      What I think Bernays, Lippmann etc essentially did, is take the divide and conquer principal out of warfare and apply it to commercial goods. Throw in the lapdog media and “experts” to keep stirring the pot and you have the framework for cultivating popular opinion, commercial products, news, reactions to events, science and so on (sorry, a meandering point).

      Also you do not have to reject the music with the propaganda. In fact it makes music more enjoyable, because now you can focus on the music (vocals, chords, melodies, rhythms, drums etc) and throw away the crap thrown in with it. For instance, I like a lot of the music from the classic rock n roll era mentioned within this interview. Although, now I know the cause for its creation was not what was originally told, I still enjoy the music. Who wouldn’t enjoy that powerful guitar riff at the beginning of all along the watch tower, or Led Zepplins immigrant song or whatever you like – Take what you want from it and throw the propagandist crap associated with it in the bin.

  7. Martyn George
    December 15, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    Interesting interview with Miles Copeland from ROLLING STONE, 1986. – http://recolumns.blogspot.com.au/2010/10/secret-agent-man.html

    ERINGER: What else did you get up to in the CIA?

    COPELAND: I got my foot in the door of the psychopharmacological department by virtue of my interest in assassination. There are two categories: those which are made to look like nastural deaths and those which serve their purpose only if they are known to be assassinations.

    For the first kind, there is a variety of methods, most of them involving poison. Somehow you introduce into the body of your victim two separate substances, at different times, each of which is harmless by itself but which becomes poisonous when mixed with the other.

    You wouldn’t beliueve what those weirdos came up with! The congressional committee got only the barest glimpse.


    COPELAND: The next time you go to a Police concert, say, one like that in Shea Stadium with 70,000 young minds open to whatever the police decide to put into them, you can answer that question for yourself.

  8. david llewellyn foster
    December 19, 2013 at 8:37 am

    Very interesting Jan, thanks for this good long discussion ~ it gets stranger and stranger. Only in Nova Albion could we expect such a counter-intuitive state of affairs.

    A couple of observations.

    Given that post-WW2 USA is ~ using the present-historic ~ entirely wrapped-up in the all pervading military-industrial matrix, all those precocious psychedelic ‘sixties kids are inevitably born into military/intel/corporate brat families. Moreover since the CIA has its tentacles everywhere, both overtly and covertly, the whole academic/research/media establishment is awash with CIA funded programs of one sort or another. How can anyone be exempt?

    I mean people barely had TV’s in the ‘fifties, they just wanted secure jobs & the good corporate life ~ never mind this ever-mutating and surreal, cat’s-cradle of fractal chiaroscuro deceits, that deluge our cognitive reflexes with conspicuous speed-of-light singularity these days. I find Richard Thieme’s work very intriguing.

    It seems to me, the web is the new “LSD,” equally ambivalent and neuroleptic.

    Back then, the “set. setting and matrix” was the rule not the exception. Under the intel-nuclear-psychedelic umbrella, everyone found themselves in the same post-war boat.

    Would it be more practical to invert the agenda, and try to determine who was definitely NOT an agent, either witting or unwitting? Then concentrate on fleshing out the evidence for just what did constitute mendacious complicity, and conscious conspiracy to deceive?

    The dilemma is not dissimilar to the atheist/communist debacle. When you call yourself a free-thinker, possibly a full-blown atheist, then you are immediately suspected of being communist. All these cages are constructed from the prejudiced and prescriptive narratives of religious convention of one type or another, religion being the great zeitgeist, conservative shaper, shifter and infiltrator of minds. Hence we are all subject to indoctrination by overarching psycho-historical typologies like “christendom” or “paganism” or “enlightenment” or “renaissance thought” or “classical roots,” “orientalism,” “native indigenes,” “tradition,” “Muslims,” “orthodoxy” etc etc. These are all categories that are completely hypothetical and disputable.

    I encountered numerous draft-dodgers in Toronto in the late sixties ~ they changed the old stodgy culture completely. In the UK, military conscription or National Service (the “call-up”) was discontinued in 1960, so our experience was very different from the States, the sociological background to the UK music scene was this new “freedom” from military service. (Please don’t tell me you buy the Coleman drivel about Adorno & the Beatles…) I worked at “the Radio Show” a huge expo at Earls Court in 1963, when a bunch of scruffs called the Yardbirds were tucked away on a seedy stage and allowed to make some noise. I left the UK when I was just 20, by which time I had already been introduced to Sufism and rapidly became absorbed in Chinese thought in Canada. My emergent experience was profoundly affected by this trans-Atlantic immersion.

    So I have to challenge the assumption that everyone in the ‘sixties is on some perfectly orchestrated “secret” playbook page. Such conformity seems highly implausible. Is Hendrix at Woodstock “patriotic,” “ironic” or just creative?

    A note about dance ~ according to an anthology on African Dance (’94) I sourced when I was completing a post-grad. cert in adult ed. back in 2003, traditional dance does not follow the music. Musicians follow the dancer(s.) http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/African_Dance.html?id=nnsWhJGkXo8C&redir_esc=y

    I don’t get the Paulekas/ Nijinsky reference you mention, since he had a breakdown in 1919 and did not perform after that & so far as the Bernays connection goes, that ended when Diaghilev died in 1929. Presumably she was born in the ‘forties.

    Tarring everyone with the same CIA brush simply does not reflect my own life experience. That brush certainly exists as I know from direct exposure, but who brandishes it and with what degree of skill and “success,” is definitely open to robust questioning.

    You seldom disappoint Jan & your work is always insightful, but human beings are complex, some infinitely more so than others.

    • December 19, 2013 at 10:49 am

      “Tarring everyone with the same CIA brush simply does not reflect my own life experience. That brush certainly exists as I know from direct exposure, but who brandishes it and with what degree of skill and “success,” is definitely open to robust questioning.”

      Tarring everyone… hmmm… where did I tar everyone? Anyway, I’ll leave you to such fallacious, unsupported comments.

      We were specifically discussing the key large bands with parents in intel, and how those bands grew up around intel, promoting the drugs and degeneration of society as we discussed in Manufacturing the Deadhead. You’ve approached all this with your conclusions and feelings, ignoring the facts, and then making fallacious statements about EVERYONE and TARRING. Do you know how sick I get of comments like this?

      • david llewellyn foster
        December 19, 2013 at 3:40 pm

        Hold on Jan, It’s not a direct accusation only an ironic observation from life. Please don’t take it so personally, it was not intended thus. I know who you were discussing, I listened twice and it is a compelling narrative, but something is missing, and I think it is the sheer idiosyncratic weirdness of individuals, and the conditioning that represses their (authentic) unconscious natures. After all that is what LSD was actually doing back then, stirring up those hidden depths ~ but in increasingly unpredictable ways, often replacing one set of conditioned responses by another. I have met loads of people with crazy ideas from acid from those early days, but some ~ not all ~ have emerged, eventually, into a reasonably sane state of being. Call it wisdom or maturity if you like.

        You tie the Canyon crowd to a massive cold-war social engineering project that surely definitely existed, only I don’t see convincing proof that all the specific individuals who are linked by association, beyond the Canyon crew through multiple connections, can be so consciously implicated, directly, in this huge program of complicit deceit. It doesn’t correspond to what I would understand as social reality & how people really are. Of course vulnerable and vain people were and are exploited in obvious ways, & we all know about “dark shamanism,” but real people are far more complicated, unpredictable and stupid than the deterministic picture that seems to be emerging. I don’t think it maps psychic reality precisely enough. This is not an outright dismissal of your thesis, far from it, I’m only asking for more specifics.

        Your condemnation of Metzner for example, and Leary’s other contemporaries, Kesey and the whole tribe of stoned pranksters, & now the MAPS gang etc: I agree there is colossal sophistry among these tenured and celebrated groups, and unremitting peer pressure to live up to some public expectation, but I can’t write them all off as fakes and poseurs. Criticism is fine and healthy, but this could easily be misread as a resentnik fundamentalist witch-hunt. Now i’m NOT saying that is what it is, but we don’t want to provide any further justification for some Intel-inspired US “cultural revolution” like Mao’s catastrophic abomination. Some opinions can become incendiary.

        Of course I’ll accept your conclusions as they become fully substantiated, but open questioning is intelligent, desirable and constructive. I’ve been consistently prepared to defend your work as not only relevant but motivated by the highest principle. My point is that as even more circumstantial evidence builds up, the forensic detail grows increasingly more significant. You say Leary was hired by Osmond and Huxley for example. OK, if that is demonstrably true, what does it really mean, how do we interpret this? if Leary was hired by Osmond and H, in what capacity? As a motley fool? What’s the real script? I mean, Huxley was just a writer. he peddled fictional ideas and allegories, not a full-blown doctrine. In that respect he was little league.

        Also, what is the hard proof that Aldous was running MKULTRA other than Stubblebine’s assertion you refer to? I’m just about to listen to that interview right now. I must be pretty thick but I don’t really think such an effete English novelist would be up to the task.

        You really surprised me when you completely ridiculed mysticism, as though everything that falls under the rubric of esoteric or Hermetic praxis should be dismissed as charlatanism. I’m a hard-line skeptic, but I do not accept that reading. It falls way short of the mark. Do you really think that?

        I feel you’re attributing far more to Huxley than he was actually capable of. After all this guy never made any effort to contact Aleister Crowley, who was the leading occultist in Europe until his death in 1947. Why is that? If Huxley had planned to implement a new world order independently or just to oppose the Great Beast, he would have been not only extremely naive but deluded; or conversely revealed as a deeply sinister “black brother.”

        Maybe that is exactly what he was, or just a hybrid intellectual fool, for there is no doubt a man of his erudition would have been critically aware of the Book of the Law. How could he ignore that? John McGowan despite his exceptional stoicism, seems to be extremely ambivalent and misinformed about Crowley. Demonizing the Beast is a seductive hubris too many otherwise intelligent people are prone to. As I have intimated in the past, there is a far bigger operation behind the operation you are exposing.

        I’m happy to retract the inference about the tar-brush, its only a tacky figure of speech and I can do without it.

        The stuff about Houdini was really arresting, but can you clarify the Paulekas(Shaffer) Nijinsky thing? What troupe was this she spoke about? It sounds to me like it had nothing whatever to do with the Russian dancer, directly. She was born in 1943 apparently, so would perhaps have been dancing as a teen in the mid/late ‘fifties. Nijinsky was out of the scene very soon after the Great War and died in 1950, having had no direct contact evidently with the US throughout those troubled thirty years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaslav_Nijinsky

        • david llewellyn foster
          December 19, 2013 at 4:00 pm

          Apologies to Dave, not John as I wrote above.

          • david llewellyn foster
            December 21, 2013 at 6:26 am

            I have listened carefully to the Stubblebine & Rima interviews, and read all the comments to date. but rather than speculate ad nauseam about their credibility, legitimate or illegitimate operational methodologies or ultimate motivation and allegiances, I think it is more helpful to defer directly to the work of David H Price, that seems to me to be getting to grips with the core sociobiological issues of the dynamics of power.

            There was a very interesting and relevant interview with Marshall Sahlins in counterpunch earlier this year http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/02/26/the-destruction-of-conscience-in-national-academy-of-sciences/

            Here is a brief extract that touches on points that seem to me to be particularly relevant:

            “Price: ……can you comment on the role of science and scientific societies in a culture as centrally dominated by military culture as ours?

            Sahlins: There is a paragraph or two in my pamphlet on The Western Illusion of Human Nature, of which I have no copy on hand, which cites Rumsfeld to the effect (paraphrasing Full Metal Jacket) that inside every Middle eastern Muslim there’s an American ready to come out, a self-interested freedom loving American, and we just have to force it out or force out the demons who are perpetrating other ideas [see page 42 of Sahlins; The Western Illusions of Human Nature]. Isn’t American global policy, especially neo-con policy, based on the confusion of capitalist greed and human nature? Just got to liberate them from their mistaken, externally imposed ideologies. For the alternative see the above mentioned pamphlet on the one true universal, kinship, and the little book I published last month: What Kinship Is–And Is Not….”

            This really is the deep question ~ what is human nature? Without a plausible (empirical) theory of what constitutes a human being in the contextual dynamics of kinship relations & value systems, no “control” system whatever can be remotely effective ( …that is to say, practicable.)

          • December 21, 2013 at 12:51 pm

            “I have listened carefully to the Stubblebine & Rima interviews, and read all the comments to date. but rather than speculate ad nauseam about their credibility, legitimate or illegitimate operational methodologies or ultimate motivation and allegiances”

            Yes, it’s always better to attack the messenger, than to verify the message.

  9. December 19, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Half way through, so apologies if this is covered in the last half.

    When you bring up the New Wave movement that kicked off in the mid to late 70s, I thought you would bring up U2 crooner Bono. He likes to pal around with arch neocon, Paul Wolfowitz. Bob Geldolf, organizer of the post-Woodstock outdoor music festivals Band Aid and Live Aid also was part of the circle. See this statement from Wolfowitz on the World Bank website: http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTABOUTUS/ORGANIZATION/EXTPRESIDENT/EXTPASTPRESIDENTS/EXTOFFICEPRESIDENT/0,,contentMDK:21168521~menuPK:64343284~pagePK:51174171~piPK:64258873~theSitePK:1014541,00.html .

    More on Bono’s lofty endorsements here: http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/07/news/newsmakers/bono_worldbank/ (much of this commentary seems tongue in cheek. But it elevates Bono’s political street cred and identifies his wider circle of associates.)

    On Jim Morrison saying that he’d be comfortable with the idea of reinventing himself as a Wall Street executive. He’s not the only counterculture figurehead who felt so comforted. Check out the bio of yippie leader, Jerry Rubin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Rubin

    Jan, thanks for your persistence in getting Dave to interview. Really outstanding couple of hours.

  10. December 22, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    Dave’s work clears up a peculiarity about Frank Zappa that always bugged me, namely FZ’s willingness to lend his imprimatur to the Monkees.

    His public persona positioned Zappa as a cultural snob among the longhairs, a snooty highbrow, with a perverse knack for potty humor, looking down his long nose at the bewildered herd. He set himself apart from the common rockers by injecting avant-gardism into his baroque tunes and adopting as a personal catchphrase a line from Edgard Varèse, (“The modern day composer refuses to die”). Zappa’s disdain for top-40 bubblegum pop music was evident throughout his career. So why would he lend his weight to helping out the Monkees, the epitome of pre-fab, off-the-shelf pop product? Instances of his assistance include:

    An appearance on the Monkees TV show, sharing a skit with Michael Nesmith, in which the two offer sarcastic in-joke side comments about joining the Byrds, and conclude by sledgehammering a car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_DevsLV5Y8

    A cameo appearance in the Monkees movie, “Head”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOI-SDYGviM

    (Young Turks Jack Nicholson and Dennis Hopper grace the movie with walk-ons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCOGytkEowc )

    And, according to Zappa biographer Barry Miles, FZ invited Mickey Dolenz to join the Mothers as drummer (though Dolenz was contractually obliged elsewhere).

    On his site, Dave points out that Zappa’s father was a career chemist for the U.S. Army. Nesmith had a military background and was heir to the Liquid Paper fortune, but decided to move to Los Angeles to pursue music. Dolenz was born into a Hollywood showbiz family and worked as a child actor. So there are plenty of Hollywood and military threads uniting FZ and the Monkees, stylistically possibly the two most remote ends of the 60s music spectrum.

    In a recent interview with Jim Fetzer, Dave said that the book will have new material on Frank Zappa. I don’t know if the Monkees angle is covered, so I am calling attention to this incongruous relationship.

  11. Antonin Warhola
    December 23, 2013 at 10:46 am

    The vignette about Stephen Stills provided my ah-ha moment for the entire 60s counterculture. Really puts this song into an interesting new context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opBe5z0qwRE

  12. December 23, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    Bono/U2 definitely has to fit into this as picking up some of slack once the Police broke up and the new wave/punk,pop rock hybrid emerged

    amazing amazing connections and DD on the Miles Copeland/Police stuff. The lead singer is called Sting in the police…as in sting…false flag.

    Hard to find connections with military or intelligence with U2…unless you literally look at the name of the band. U2 Spyplane, etc. Larry Mullen Jr started the band he’s the silent one ….but these guys have never had real jobs. Later on one could see once u2 made it big how bono with the Zoo TV tour amped up his game. I guess they were singled out for idealism with the Live Aid/Africa stuff unless someone can find a real connection . Bono even dressed like the devil with his faustian Mr Macphisto act where he called Bush, etc. The dude’s met all of them at this point from presidents to pope and made millions recently off the Facebook IPO because he owns a venture capital fund. No doubt…he is well aware of this stuff and living it up

    • el
      February 22, 2014 at 1:05 pm

      Do you think Muse sings Bonos songs? I think Muse sounds like U2.

  13. Jeremy K
    December 23, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Yea, I wonder where all these spontaneous #1 pop “hits” just come from, out of nowhere: they are #1, no one has ever heard of them and they are #1 just like THAT.

    I am all for reading detail that may not be there, but the way it looks to me, is that “they” market it hysterically as a #1 by constantly at every free nanosecond playing it to dust on the radio and television.., THEN the predictable obediatti trample each other to death to buy the record and reaffirm their status as clones in deference to the Holy-wood.

    • Robert Christy
      December 23, 2013 at 9:49 pm

      Well I know that in book publishing a number one book is number one because all the book stores buy the books they are told to make number one, therefore a bestseller is a bestseller before it hits the shelves…I believe it works essentially the same way in music.

      • Jeremy K
        December 24, 2013 at 6:11 am

        Thats sounds pretty bang on to me.

  14. December 23, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    OK, sorry about that weird URL. Try this: http://go.worldbank.org/C8Y5AZD0L0 for Wolfowitz fawning over Bono and Geldolf.
    Also, here’s a better summary of Bono as NWO agent :::::

  15. Robert Christy
    December 23, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    Great interview Jan,

    Interesting how they made the hippy the picture of peace, love and freedom…..then the punks are the image of anarchy! Yikes no wonder we are where we are!
    Seems that that would be the natural way our consciousness would evolve, as people found their freedom the next logical step would be anarchy.

  16. Tim Noonan
    January 17, 2014 at 4:32 am

    This is an unorganized pile of info pertaining to the strange connections between the supposed DIY punk/straight edge scene started in the 1980’s Washington D.C. and the Military Industrial Complex. Check it out and please feel free to add to it or critique it. Thanks.

    In the star studded hills of Nichols Canyon or more commonly know as Hollywood Hills, is the home of Henry Garfield. The name rings of prestige and wealth doesn’t it? He is quite famous , but not for what you may think.

    Born Henry Lawrence Garfield in Washington, D.C., he was raised in the elite Glover Park neighborhood of the city. His parents divorced when he was two years old, and was raised by his mother. His father was a military man who disciplined Henry with his fists, and his mother was considered a bit unhinged. Henry has even told Rolling Stone in 1992 that he was sexually molested many times as a child. As a child, Henry suffered from depression and low self-esteem and was put on Ritalin.[1] He was raised primarily by his mother, Iris, who taught him how to read before he was enrolled in kindergarten;[2] however, due to “bad grades, bad attitude, poor conduct,” he was soon enrolled at The Bullis School. The Bullis School is an independent, non-denominational, co-educational college preparatory day school for grades 3-12. The school enrolls 640 students and located in Potomac, Maryland in the suburbs of Washington,
    DC. It primarily caters to the wealthy and affluent families in Washington DC area and is known for attendance by current and past billionaires children.
    Bullis was founded in 1930 by Commander William “Joey” F. Bullis, as a preparatory school for the United States Naval Academy. The school moved in 1934 to suburban Silver Spring, Maryland and began its four-year college preparatory program. In the 1960s, the school moved to its current location in Potomac, Maryland and in 1980 became co-educational.

    According to Henry, the Bullis School helped him to develop a sense of discipline and a strong work ethic.[1] It was at Bullis that he began writing; his early literary efforts were mainly short stories about “blowing up my school and murdering all the teachers.”[2] Despite the relative affluence of Glover Park, for Henry “it was a very rough upbringing in a lot of other ways. I accumulated a lot of rage by the time I was seventeen or eighteen.” We now know Henry as Henry Rollins.

    Henry soon got interested in music. He started a punk band named State of Alert. His friend and S.O.A. drummer,Apart from growing up to marry a U.N official, Ivor Hanson would host the band practices at his house. Since Hanson’s father was a top ranking navy admiral his house happened to be at the Naval Observatory, The offical residence of the Vice President and top Naval Brass. Everytime the young punks wanted to get in they had to escorted by armed Secret Service.
    Henry had many friends in the neighborhood, who were also from wealthy families involved in military and government. They too also were in punk bands. One friend was and still is, Ian Mackaye.

    Ian MacKaye was born in Washington D.C. on April 16, 1962, and grew up in the affluent Glover Park neighborhood of Washington D.C. His father was a writer for the Washington Post, first as a White House reporter, then as a religion specialist; the senior MacKaye remains active with the socially progressive St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church. According to MacKaye’s longtime friend,Henry, MacKaye’s parents “raised their kids in a tolerant, super intellectual, open-minded atmosphere.” Mackaye’s Father moved the family to Palo Alto for one year when he received a fellowship at Stanford.
    Ian Mackaye is most famous for starting Dischord Records and for fronting the bands Minor Threat and Fugazi. These are bands that had anti establishment messages associated with their lyrics as you can guess. Henry on the other hand decided one day with Ian to go to New York and see his favorite band Black Flag. The members of the band liked Henry so much they asked him to join the band. Sounds normal right? Considering they had a singer but he was apparently not really into to singing. Anyways luckly for Henry the rest is history he moved to California, became a well know singer/songwriter/ frontman, poet ,actor and all around success. Probably the biggest success to come from a supposedly anti establishment scene and image.

    Minor Threat is most known for inventing the straight edge movement. This idea is a militant philosophy of not smoking drinking or having pre marital sex. Like every movement of a sort there are offshoots and it is now a prominant phrase in the vernacular used to describe what was once a prude or from back in your day, anal retentive. Of course not too long after starting this trend like most who do start movements or trends Ian Mackaye denounced the idea andhas distanced himself from it ever since.

    Lyle Preslar is an American musician best known for being a guitar player and song writer for the hardcore punk band Minor Threat. Before that, he was the vocalist for The Extorts. Lyle Lived in Glover Park and attended the elite Georgetown Day School.

    After Minor Threat dissolved, he played guitar in The Misfits, The Meatmen and the first incarnation of Samhain fronted by Henry’s proclaimed best friend Glen Danzig.

    After retiring from performing, he ran Caroline Records, signing Ben Folds, Chemical Brothers, and Fat Boy Slim; he was later a marketing executive for Elektra Records and Sire Records.[4][3] In 2007, he graduated from Rutgers School of Law-Newark.[4] He is admitted to practice law in the state of New York. Pretty good for just a random street punk.

    He is married to Sandy Alouete, an executive at VH1 and they have a child named Romy.[4]

    Preslar also won the Grammy Law Initiative Writing Prize in 2007 with an article about the RIAA vs. XM Satellite Radio.

    Jeff Nelson is best known as the drummer for the hardcore punk rock band Minor Threat. He and friend Ian MacKaye formed their first band, The Slinkees, in 1979. Their next band was The Teen Idles. Nelson and MacKaye founded Dischord Records in 1980, whose first record was the Teen Idles. They continue to run Dischord together. The duo also comprised the bands Egg Hunt and Skewbald/Grand Union; both bands recorded only one single. Nelson has also played in the bands Feedbag, Three, Wonderama, Senator Flux, High-Back Chairs, and is currently in the band Fast Piece of Furniture. He also founded Adult Swim Records in 1989. An aficionado and collector of Jeep Wagoneers and Victorian architecture, Jeff currently lives in the historic “Old West End” of Toledo, OH. Waht is left out of Jeff’s internet bio is the only piece of history about Jeff Nelson that is some what interesting. In “Our Band Could Be your Life” By Michael Azzerad, Jeff is described as a “State
    Dept. Brat”. I am guessing this is implying that one or more of Jeff’s parental figures was employed by the State dept. at the time he was the drummer of an outwardly anti establishment band. He too resided in Glover Park.

    Marginal Man was a punk band that emerged in the Washington, D.C. hardcore scene in 1983. Some members of Marginal Man—Steve Polcari, Pete Murray, and Mike Manos—played earlier in Artificial Peace,[1] a band which appears on Dischord Records’ important Flex Your Head compilation, an essential document of the 1980s D.C. punk scene.[citation needed] The other two members, Andre Lee and Kenny Inouye, had previously been in the band Toasterhead.[1] Members of the band included

    Steve Polcari – Vocals
    Pete Murray – Guitar, Vocals
    Kenny Inouye – Guitar
    Andre Lee – Bass
    Mike Manos – Drums
    They released one EP, Identity (Dischord 13), and two LPs, Double Image (Gasatanka/Enigma) and Marginal Man (Giant) and appeared on the compilations, State of the Union and 20 Years of Dischord (Dischord 125).

    Marginal Man played for five years before a final performance at the 9:30 Club on March 24, 1988. They reunited for a show at the 9:30 Club on August 29, 1991, and another on December 30, 1995 for the second to last show at the 9:30 Club’s original location.

    Guitarist Kenny Inouye is the son of Medal of Honor recipient and President pro tempore of the United States Senate, Hon. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii…..

    What? The same Daniel Inouye who covered up Iran/ Contra? Who barred Jack Brooks from asking Ollie North about Rex 84? His son was in a punk band?Huh
    I guess that is not very surprising.

    Glenn Danzig
    Born Glenn Allen Anzalone in Lodi, New Jersey, the third of four sons[6] born to a Protestant family of Italian, German, and Scottish heritage. His father was a television repairman and a former United States Marine Corps veteran of World War II and the Korean War.[7] Danzig and his family also spent some time living in Revere, Massachusetts.[8] Danzig began listening to heavy music at an early age, and has described Black Sabbath, Blue Cheer and The Doors as being among his early musical influences.[5]

    At age 11, Danzig began to experiment with drugs and alcohol, leading him into frequent fights and trouble with the law.[9] He stopped using drugs other than alcohol at age 15.[9]

    Danzig became an avid collector of occult books, horror related articles, B movie posters, Japanese animation videos, rare Japanese toys, and animal skulls. Danzig also collected comic books, and in his frustration with American comics, he began producing his own “crazy, violent, erotic comics.”[10]

    Danzig graduated from Lodi High School in June 1973, aspiring to become a comic book creator,[11] and professional photographer. He attended the Tisch School of the Arts and later the New York Institute of Photography.[12] Danzig eventually formed an adult-oriented comic book company called Verotik in the mid-1990s.[13]

    Glenn Danzig’s introduction to performing music began when he took piano and clarinet lessons as a child.[14] He later taught himself how to play the guitar.[14] Danzig started in the music business at the age of 11, first as a drum roadie[13] and then playing in local garage bands.[11] He had never taken vocal lessons, but his vocal prowess gained him attention in the local scene. Throughout his teenage years he sang for several local bands, such as Talus and Whodat And Boojang, most of which played half original songs and half Black Sabbath songs.

    [edit] Misfits and Samhain (1977-1987)In the mid-1970s, Danzig started the Misfits, releasing the band’s records through his own label, (originally known as Blank, then later as Plan 9).[15] Danzig had attempted to get the Misfits signed to several record labels, only to be told that he would never have a career in music.[16] The impetus for the band’s name comes from Marilyn Monroe’s last film, combined with Danzig considering himself to be a “social misfit.”[1] The Misfits combined Danzig’s harmonic vocals with camp-horror imagery and lyrics. The Misfits sound was a faster, heavier derivation of Ramones style punk with rockabilly influences. Glenn Danzig’s Misfits songs dealt almost exclusively with themes derived from B-grade horror and science fiction movies (e.g. “Night of the Living Dead”) as well as comic books (e.g. “Wasp Women”, “I Turned Into A Martian”).[1] Unlike the later incarnation of the Misfits, Danzig also dealt with Atomic Era scandals
    in songs like “Bullet” (about the Kennedy assassination), “Who Killed Marilyn” (which alluded to alternate theories about Marilyn Monroe’s suicide), and Hollywood Babylon (inspired by the Kenneth Anger book on scandals associated with the early, formative years of Hollywood). In 1983, after releasing several singles and three albums, and gaining a small underground following ( I might add here that they were prominant in the Washington D.C. punk scene where he met Henry and they had a secret code called 138 and even sang a song about it where henry sings a long. The lyrics are simply “we are 138” repeated over and over. here are some interesting opinions on what that means

    ive heard several stories from a robot #138 in an old sci-fi flick to a battallion that fought to the last man standing in wwII. bottom line, does it matter? misfits are a way of life. and f*** the haters after glenn bytched out. ( and learn to spell it right) Jerry Only has kept the band goin strong. you dont like it, theres always culture club for you. STFU
    – monster, who cares, WA

    you guys are all f–king idiots! glenn danzig himself is quoted as saying not even his own band members know the meaning of 138 is. The TRUE ORIGIN OF “WE ARE 138” is quite simple, straight from Glenn Danzig’s mouth; ‘138’ was just something he and his friends thought up as kids. It was a code or something, meaning the ability to kill without thinking twice about it.
    – Joe, San Diego, CA

    Nobody except for the great Glenn Danzig knows what the song is about….sorry fellow fiends. There have been several roumrs. Mr Danzig if you read this crap please write a comment about it so can all know the true meaning, but if its part of your mysique and you dont feel we are ready to understand its whatever man.
    – GodHater666, Sioux City, IA

    I really wonder, why you Guys talk about the THX 1138, when the song is named as “we are 138”. It is in my eyes a bit retarded to discuss about this song, when you have not the slightest clue about. Herny Rollins told once, that the “we are 138″ is an other meaning for beeing retarted.
    – Stefan, Landshut, Germany

    , Danzig disbanded the Misfits due to increasing animosity among the band members and his dissatisfaction with their musical abilities.[1]

    Let me interject here. If you consider lyrics like ” I hack the heads off little girls and put them on my wall”, or ” When nude creatures rape your face hybrids open up the door” or “20 eyes in my head they’re all the same, when you’re seening 20 things at a time you can’t work things out”, CAMP HORROR then I guess we live in troubled times my friend…anyways back to the fake history.

    After the Misfits, he began work on a new band project: Samhain. The origins of Samhain began when Glenn Danzig started rehearsing with Eerie Von, formerly of Rosemary’s Babies.[17] Danzig took the name of the band from the ancient Celtic New Year, which influenced the evolution of the modern Halloween. Initially Samhain was conceived as a punk rock “super group”. The band briefly featured members of Minor Threat and Reagan Youth, who contributed to Samhain’s 1984 debut, Initium. The band then settled with a lineup consisting of Eerie Von on bass, Damien on guitar, and Steve Zing on drums (later replaced by London May). In 1985 the Unholy Passion EP was released, followed by November-Coming-Fire in 1986. Samhain’s musical and lyrical style was much darker in tone than Misfits material,[1] fusing an experimental combination of horror punk, gothic–deathrock, and heavy metal.

    Samhain eventually began to attract the interest of major labels including Epic and Elektra.[18] Rick Rubin,(Laurel Canyon resident who owns a “haunted” house,, that all the big rock stars record in and report that paranormal activity is well.. normal) music producer and head of the Def American label, would see the band perform at the 1986 New Music Seminar, on the advice of then-Metallica bassist Cliff Burton.[18

    Although Danzig is frequently portrayed as a Satanist by the mainstream media, he has denied this in several interviews,[12][54] elaborating “I embrace both my light and dark side.”[12] Danzig has explained further “I definitely believe in a yin and yang, good and evil. My religion is a patchwork of whatever is real to me. If I can draw the strength to get through the day from something, that’s religion.”[6] However, Danzig has voiced his approval of certain Satanic ideologies including the quests for knowledge and individual freedom.[54][55] Danzig has revealed that religion does not play a role in how he perceives other bands.[56]
    Danzig’s creepy looking house is right off of Hillhurst and Los Feliz not too far from Henry’s house.

    The band Fugazi was headed by Ian Mackaye and sigle handedly changed hardcore punk music forever and in my opinion really created the modern sound we refer to as alternative or alter-native. it is interesting to note that the singer Guy Piciotto attended Georgetown Day School and Georgetown University during this time period of grassroots rebellion. Joe Lally the bass player had a career day job at NASA that he gave up to be in the band full time.

    One of the handful of Misfits drummers and who also was in Black Flag was a guy named Robo A Colombian, born Roberto Valverde, had to quit the Misfits recently due to problems with his passport. There is an old rumor from way back that he was somehow involved with the FARC guerillas before coming to America.

    I would also add that the singer of the SST punk band The Minutemen D. Boon was the son of a quote from one source “Navy Chief” whatever that is and from another source a Navy officer. Mike Watt the Bass player for the Minutemen later of Firehose and Mike Watt band is the son of a Navy officer that is where he and D. Boon met on the Navy base in San Pedro.

    The Minutemen continued until December 23, 1985, when Boon was killed in a van accident in the Arizona desert near the Californian border on route I-10. Because he had been sick with fever, Boon was lying down in the rear of the van without a seatbelt when the van ran off the road. Boon was thrown out the back door of the van and died instantly from a broken neck. He was 27 years old. The band immediately dissolved, though Watt and Hurley would form the band fIREHOSE soon after. The live album Ballot Result was released in 1987, two years after Boon’s death. Kira Roessler was D. Boon’s girlfriend and in the van when he died , she also was the bass player for Black Flag and as a lot of hippies and punks seem to do, atteded a prestigious college this one being UCLA.
    Kira Roessler (born June 12, 1962) is an American bass guitarist, singer and Emmy award-winning dialogue editor. She is best known for her membership in the punk rock group Black Flag.

    [edit] BiographyWhile sitting in with L.A. punk group DC3, members of Black Flag heard her playing, which led to her being asked to join Black Flag to replace founding member Chuck Dukowski. Roessler was majoring in applied engineering at UCLA, and Black Flag’s subsequent tours were worked around her school schedule, which was a condition for her to join the band. Her bass playing was featured on five of Black Flag’s studio albums. She remained in the band until completing touring behind their album In My Head in the autumn of 1985, then graduated UCLA in 1986.

    After Black Flag, she formed the two-bass duo Dos with Mike Watt (to whom she was married between 1987 and 1994), who are still performing today. She wrote or co-wrote songs for what would be the Minutemen’s final album, 3-Way Tie (For Last), and to Watt’s post-Minutemen band fIREHOSE. She later contributed some artwork to Watt’s first solo album, Ball-Hog or Tugboat?.

    Of course I draw no conclusions from this but all of this seems strange. I was a young child in 1987 when I first heard Black Flag Minor Threat and the Misfits, I had the image in my head that they were all like me, poor skateboarders with nothing else going for them but their music and rebellion. I got this impression from the image they portrayed in photos and lyrically. We know now from articles like the ones written by Dave Mcgowan that this is all a manufacutred image and nothing else, projected out into the mind of the listener. It provides a visual for mindset of a person who is looking for salvation through music or entertainment. We now for a long time, get our values from films, TV, literature and music. Whatever conclusions we can draw from this, we can atleast say that nothing in this life can be trusted at face value and must be researched by the individual for their own.

  17. Tim Noonan
    January 19, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    I grew up listening to Wolfman Jack on Xtra Gold 690… those were the days…anyways, here are some strange things about “The Wolfman”.

    Robert Weston Smith, known commonly as Wolfman Jack (January 21, 1938 – July 1, 1995) was a gravelly-voiced, American disc jockey who became world famous in the 1960s and 1970s. Smith was born in Brooklyn on January 21, 1938, the younger of two children of Anson Weston Smith, an Episcopal Sunday school teacher, writer, editor, and executive vice president of the Financial World,And creator of the Golden Globe Awards, and Rosamond Small. His parents divorced while he was young. To help keep him out of trouble, his father bought him a large transoceanic radio, and Smith became an avid fan of R&B music and the disc jockeys who played it, After selling encyclopedias and Fuller brushes door-to-door, Smith attended the National Academy of Broadcasting in Washington, DC. Upon graduation (1960), he began working as “Daddy Jules” at WYOU-AM in Newport News, Virginia. When the station format changed to “beautiful music,” Smith became known as “Roger Gordon and
    Music in Good Taste.” In 1962, he
    moved to country music station KCIJ/1050 in Shreveport, Louisiana to be the station manager as well as the morning disc jockey, “Big Smith with the Records.” He married Lucy “Lou” Lamb in 1961, and they had two children.[1]

    In his autobiography Have Mercy!,there is a very strange statement;

    “The first few months after my parents divorce really remain a blur. It is just not possible now to know if the memories in my head are what the 5 year old Robert Smith actually saw, things that relatives told me later, or images that confusion and hurt caused me to invent. for example I believe that my sister and I were sent off to an orphanage for about 6 months…. I recall being hovered over by people I did’t recognize, complete strangers, and living for months in an institutional atmosphere of silence and distance. Where those my grandparents , aunts, uncles or were they matrons and attendants?”

    Smith was told by his sister and other family members that he was not placed in an orphanage at anytime nor was his sister, but Smith still thought his memories were real. He lived in Alexandria Va with his sister Joan and her husband Emile who was in the Navy stationed in Alexandria. He lived with them so he could attend the National Academy of Broadcasting. Various references to occult and witchcraft are made throught the book and his interest in them.

    His syndicated music radio series was sponsored by the United States Air Force, designed as a weekly program-length public service infomercial to promote the benefits of joining the Air Force.

  18. Tim Noonan
    January 20, 2014 at 4:37 am

    Do you enjoy Ancient priesthoods? Supernatural beings? Jane Fonda? Visions while listening to Simon and Garfunkel? Robber Baron tycoon types? wait are we in Laurel Canyon? No we are in Laurel Springs!

    One more tidbit, did you know that both Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss (A&M Records) were both in the Army? For Moss it is mentioned as a stint nothing big you know just a stint and good old Herb( who was Jewish not Mexican) supposedly learned how to play trumpet for ol’ Unlce Sam. And way off subject but not too far, Did you know that Lou Adler’s nephew is Steven Adler the former drummer for Guns and Roses? I guess it wasn’t really that hard growing up on the tough streets of Hollywood in 1987 as the 1st GnR album would have you believe.

    The Laurel Springs Retreat (from the official website)

    Native American Roots
    It is believed that the first settlement of this area occurred 10,000 years ago, when the sea level was 150 ft. lower, and access to the northern Channel Islands (at that time Island) was easier. By 1000 B.C.C. the beginnings of the modern Chumash language was being established in the Santa Barbara region.

    500 – 1769 A.D.
    Undisturbed by foreign settlers, indigenous civilization thrived. Tribes of Chumash (believed to translate as “seashell people”) Indians spanned from the beaches of Malibu to the Oak country of Paso Robles. Chumash of the region were primarily hunters, gatherers and fishermen, and distinguished themselves with advanced basketry, stone cookware and construction of innovative plank canoes fashioned with driftwood from the North, pine pitch and naturally occurring local tar. A tiered society developed, ranging from manual laborers to skilled craftsmen. Men and women both served as the chiefs and priests of the individual Chumash tribes.

    San Marcos Pass, which crosses the Santa Ynez Mountains and is the path to Laurel Springs Retreat, was once a trading route between the coastal and inland tribes. It is thought that Laurel Springs, at it’s heightened elevation, was exclusively used by the shaman priests and astrologers for religious ceremonies and vision questing. Painted Caves in the area, up to 1,000 years old, depicting supernatural beings and celestial events support this belief.

    Formerly a chef at the Arlington Hotel, Homer Snyder homesteaded the 160 and 13/100 acres and with a land grant, signed by President Theodore Roosevelt, acquired what he would call “Laurel Springs” in 1902. Originally settled to provide his wife, ailing with tuberculosis, a space away from the moist coastal air, Snyder built the Laurel Springs Inn (now called “The Lodge”) in 1905 and the ranch became a Bed & Breakfast vacation resort, well known for its apple orchards, hand-pressed cider and rose gardens.

    Outlasting her husband, Mrs. Snyder built a memorial monument in Homer’s honor after he passed away in 1925. The plaque and a portion of the monument remain atop our “Gazebo Trail” which overlooks the ranch and the nearby Painted Cave community.

    Mrs. Snyder then sold Laurel Springs to George Knapp, a Chicago utilities tycoon who owned several other properties in the area. The remains of nearby “Knapp’s Castle” are currently a popular a hiking location and full moon gathering location. Knapp who established Knapp’s School of Nursing in Santa Barbara provided Laurel Springs as a retreat site for the busy nurses of the local Cottage Hospital.

    The 80’s
    In 1977, actress Jane Fonda and her husband Tom Hayden acquired Laurel Springs Ranch. That same year, our own John Bair was hired as a ranch gardener. Initially designed as a headquarters for Hayden’s political activities, Laurel Springs soon became home of Laurel Springs Children’s Camp. For 15 years, Fonda ran this Summer camp using the arts, especially dramatic arts, to foster new opportunities, self-esteem and communication among children of varied races and socioeconomic backgrounds.

    In May of 1997, Melissa Keeler first stepped onto the mist-enshrouded grounds of Laurel Springs Ranch. The fog so thick, that the land’s physical features were nearly invisible, she was moved energetically, by her perception of the palpably powerful forces of compassion and healing. She was also struck by a powerful memory…

    Two years earlier, while driving in the Eastern Sierras and listening to “Bridge Over Troubled Water,” she had received a lightning bolt vision of a healing/retreat center so vivid, that she recognized it as a spiritual direction. Unsure of how to proceed, she exclaimed out loud “Yes! I will do this work, but you must show me when, where and how. I have no idea how to do this on my own, but I promise to watch for the signs…”

    After a last-minute pull-out from an established buyer, Melissa embraced the opportunity to establish and care for our current Laurel Springs Retreat. Through much trial and error, stubborn determination and deep surrender, she and partner Michael Morris accepted a stewardship of this revered land and have guided the Laurel Springs Retreat to its current glorious incarnation!

  19. Tim Noonan
    January 22, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    Lady Jayne Seymour Fonda was born in New York City in 1937, the daughter of actor Henry Fonda and the Canadian-born socialite Frances Ford Seymour Brokaw. According to her father, their surname comes from Italian ancestors who immigrated to the Netherlands.[1] There they intermarried and began to use Dutch given names.[2][3][4] She is also of English, Scottish, French, and Norwegian descent. She was named after the third wife of English king Henry VIII, Jane Seymour, to whom she is distantly related on her mother’s side.[5] She has a brother, Peter Fonda, and a maternal half-sister, Frances (aka “Pan”).[6]

    In 1950, when Fonda was twelve, her mother committed suicide while under treatment at a psychiatric hospital.[7] Later that year, Fonda’s father married socialite Susan Blanchard (born 1928), nine years his daughter’s senior; this marriage ended in divorce.

    At age 15, Fonda taught dance at Fire Island Pines, New York.[8] She attended the Emma Willard School in Troy, New York, and Vassar College in Poughkeepsie, but dropped out to become a fashion model.[9] She was twice featured on the cover of Vogue.[10]

    Frances Ford Seymour (April 14, 1908 – April 14, 1950) was a Canadian-born American socialite, the second wife of actor Henry Fonda, and the mother of actors Jane Fonda and Peter Fonda

    Born in Brockville, Ontario, Canada, she was a daughter of Eugene Ford Seymour and Sophie Mildred (née Bower; July 13, 1886 – April 15, 1974). Her father, an attorney, was descended from Edward Seymour, 1st Duke of Somerset who was brother to Henry VIII’s third wife, Jane Seymour.[1] Among her first cousins was Mary Benjamin Rogers, the first wife of Standard Oil millionaire Henry Huttleston Rogers Jr.


    On January 10, 1931, she married George Tuttle Brokaw, a millionaire lawyer and sportsman, whose previous marriage, to Clare Boothe Luce, had ended in divorce. They had one child, Frances de Villers Brokaw (1931–2008, known as “Pan”), who later married Francesco Corrias, and became a painter.[2][3] By this marriage Frances Ford Brokaw also had a stepdaughter, Ann Clare Brokaw (1924-1944).

    A year after George Tuttle Brokaw died, she married actor Henry Fonda on September 16, 1936, at Christ Church, New York City. The couple had two children, actress Jane and actor Peter.


    Frances Ford Fonda suffered from mental illness and committed suicide by cutting her throat with a razor on her 42nd birthday while she was a patient at Craig House, a Sanitarium in Beacon, New York.

    Abbie Gifford Rogers (January 20, 1841 – May 21, 1894), was the first wife of Henry Huttleston Rogers, (1840–1909), a United States capitalist, businesswoman, industrialist, financier, and philanthropist.

    As children, Abbie and “Hen”, each of Mayflower lineage, grew up and went to school together in Fairhaven, Massachusetts, a small coastal fishing town with a whaling heritage. They were married in 1862, and started their family life together in a one room shack in the newly discovered western Pennsylvania oil fields. Although he and Abbie lived frugally for many years, by 1875, Henry Rogers had risen in the petroleum industry to become one of the key men in John D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil Trust. He invested heavily in various industries, including copper, steel, mining, and railways. The Virginian Railway is widely considered his final life’s achievement. Rogers amassed a great fortune, estimated at over $100 million, and became one of the wealthiest men in the United States.

    Abbie and Henry Rogers were generous, providing many public works for their hometown of Fairhaven, including the Town Hall which Abbie donated in 1894 shortly before her death. Rogers also financially assisted such notables as Mark Twain, Helen Keller, and Booker T. Washington.

    Abbie and Henry Rogers had 5 children, four of whom survived to adulthood. She died suddenly on May 21, 1894, following an operation in New York City. After her death, Henry Rogers is said to have immersed himself even more in his work during the 15 years he outlived her. When he died in 1909, he was interred with her at Riverside Cemetery in Fairhaven.

  20. el
    February 22, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    Good job tim!

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