KMO welcomes Jan Irvan, host of the Gnostic Media Podcast, and Jarett Sanchez, host of The Next Step Podcast, back to the C-Realm to discuss the Trivium, the bedrock of classical liberal arts education which prepares young minds to be effective critical thinkers and self-directed learners. Jarett helps KMO summarize an essay by Dorothy L. Sayers about how the Trivium mirrors and takes advantage of the stages of childhood cognitive development, and Jan describes why the Trivium is now reserved for elites and systematically denied to the children of the proletariat in compulsory public schooling as a means of social control. Music by ALLFLAWS.
Link to the original interview:
http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2012-06-20T10_52_36-07_00
Link to the C-Realm podcast:
http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:00:00 — 55.0MB)
Great podcast but the intermittent bells ringing are far too loud and for someone listening in head phones this is a painful shock to undergo.
Thank you Jan for continuing to get this vital information out to the masses.
-SGI
sacredgeometryinternational.com
I’m eagerly awaiting the second hour of the interview that KMO mentions.
but why is the last hour missing???
KMO lost his recording and his audio on my side wasn’t good. It’s easiest just to hear the full presentation already recorded here: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/magic-mushrooms-and-the-psychedelic-revolution-beginning-a-new-history-or-the-secret-history-of-magic-mushrooms-by-jan-irvin-144-2/#comment-3832
Yeah, watch out about 50 minutes in for the ear drum blasting bell!!! Other than that this was a great interview and I thank you very much for making knowledge of the trivium available to me. The school system fucked me up some and I’m trying to educate myself and learn to think critically. It’s difficult teaching myself as a 27 year old adult, I’m not very organized and I feel pretty dumb but the Trivium Binder Project looks like something that will be very helpful. Thank you so much!
Jan,
In assigning all this malice to the school system kingpins and international corporations, you’re forgetting some basic facts that the elite never forget:
1) The masses are mostly stupid (eg. they don’t read, they don’t take their education seriously, etc).
2) The masses are mostly lazy (eg. they don’t learn algebra on their own, but watch TV instead).
3) The masses LIKE the stuff they’re peddled – indigenous people and western fat-asses alike CHOOSE McDonalds and Coke because they’re YUMMY. Video games hook people because they’re FUN (and incredibly addicting. And no, they do not get old).
These transactions that have ruined our culture have two sides, and for most part, there are willing customers. Evil marketing just helps it along.
Indigenous people gladly trade in their sustainable lifestyles which are “in harmony with the environment” for the same reason you don’t live in harmony with your environment. It’s nicer to be warm, well-fed, and travel quickly than to live in harmony with one’s environment.
Thanks for your note, but it appears that you missed or didn’t study the rest of the information here on the trivium and completely missed the point.
Start off with studying The Ultimate History Lesson with John Taylor Gatto, and also the rest of the trivium material here on this site, and then please restate how your post is accurate in light of all of this information…
1) The entire point of the conversation was about how the education system has been intentionally dumbed down. See the resources already mentioned.
2) See #1.
3) see #1.
For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them.
-Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1
Posts like yours make me want to beat my head against a wall.
And no, all indigenous cultures and people don’t want to move into Western culture at all. In fact, groups like the Urarina in Peru have resisted subjugation for centuries and all attempts have failed, forcing anthropologists like Prof. Bart Dean at U of Kansas to write an entire treatise on possible ways to subvert their culture and force them into Western society. At every attempt the Urarina have either kicked Westerners out, or moved deeper into the jungles. If you studied Cecil Rhodes and how systems have been in place for centuries to force indigenous cultures into Western civilization, you’d understand the greater implications and elitist manipulations at play here and how these things are done, like forcing indigenous children into western schools and requiring uniforms, which require money, which then the indigenous peoples have to go out and get to do this, and then their children being indoctrinated and conditioned against their own culture by these same government/Church compulsory schools to move into the cities for shitty factory jobs and the like – where they can be taxed and placed into the entire machine. This was also done in Africa for centuries and is still done today. It’s some disturbing stuff, forcing many tribes to fight their local governments, such as in Peru, slaughtering thousands of indigenous protecting their lands, and going before the UN to get an international treaty for the right of their very existence..
So you’re glossing over and confusing and compounding many issues here without in an in depth understanding of their underlying machinations.
Great show! Your work on the trivium continues to be not only an inspiration but has everyday practical results! Thank you and keep up the Great Work!
Ah, this pattern again. Your listeners are all unread dolts and your guests are always unassailable, yes? Where have I seen this pattern before? Oh yeah, on each and every semi-critical comment on your site. Your predictability betrays a less-than-honest look at the facts.
Interesting that when a listener thinks critically but differently than you, they must not have read the material, or listened to the podcast, or know the Trivium, or know what they’re talking about.
What’s the name for that fallacy, Jan?
You cannot deny the desirability of the products and lifestyles being peddled and that that desirability plays a big part in their dominance – maybe even bigger than the evil forces behind them. That you would turn my statements around into an accusation that I haven’t absorbed the material is, frankly, poor thinking on your part (and false).
My statements are true alongside and separate from the broad injustice against indigenous peoples worldwide and for 100s of years. I suggest you read The Gift of El Tio for a look at the decisions indigenous people freely make when tempted with western wealth and perks.
My statements are true despite the masses being dumbed down by the education system. Bread and circuses came before the Prussian education system.
My point is that in your consistently narrow quasi-intellectual hard line, you’re ignoring the obvious factors I stated, making the issues seem simpler than they are. If that’s uncomfortable, you should fix that rather than attack the messenger.
Sure, break a person’s legs and then strut around with a superior pose, as though your athleticism is an inborn trait of natural superiority. Hand a person a sweet-tasting but insidious poison, and withold the knowledge that it is poison, and then laugh at their “obvious” inferiority when they get sick. Lie and trick a person out of their property, and then expound upon their “obvious” stupidity because they are poor.
Fuck you, privileged, self-justifying shill.
Hi Jan,
Was just listening to your (taped) podcast, over my husband’s shoulder, and as I am not thoroughly familiar with this site and heard either
you or your guest what I thought I heard — ‘tote the line’. I believe the correct expression is ‘toe the line’… and here is the derivation of the expression, and explanation of the usage. http://grammartips.homestead.com/toetheline.html
Thanks
Sofia M
My bad. Thanks Sofia. Good thing everything I do is scrutinized…
Good morning Jan
I was listening to this this morning and I wanted to comment on something I remember John taylor Gatto said that I still find troubling.
The idea of child labor.
I think that statement is far too broad. I would HOPE that someone would see that the Industrial revolution did nothing for children. In fact, I would argue that it was the Industrial revolution that set us all down this course of being uneducated drones. (which was around the Prussian era as well….)
I can’t see any validity in saying that child labor was a good thing, unless there is a clarification in what is meant by “child labor”. If John Taylor gatto or anyone argues that children working factories in the turn of the century was a GOOD thing then I am dismayed at that point of view.
Now, if it is meant and more importantly clarified that children learning to do certain tasks or chores is a good educational tool for them, then fine. However, I can’t even begin to imagine that claiming a child working in dangerous factory conditions and in mines is EVER good.
My partner started to work by selling newspapers at age 9 and that I can see as appropriate and he admits that built in a good work ethic for him.
However, ask a child in some developing nation today that is being employed doing menial labor how they feel about their life and if they feel that these are building them up to be great people I am sure they would disagree heartily.
I remember when Newt Ginrich stated that we should take the poor people in the schools and let them work off their education by cleaning toilets and the school grounds. I would argue that is a very classist solution. If you would argue that, then why not have ALL the children be responsible for the cleaniless of the school grounds, NOT just the poor. I personally could get behind that idea. However, just saying only the poor should be doing that sets up an ugly situation.
Anyway, my two cents
Overall, good program and I will be spreading the word as usual!
Peace